Nice GOW/MGS4 Compare

Great post Laa-Yosh and I have all ways felt the same way that you feel. What's surprising is that one said that the hair is using 60,000 vertices and Laa-Yosh can't figure out why. One does know Japanese so I believe him of course, but I would feel better if we could make sense of why.
 
Yeah, 60,000 is a lot.

one, just to double check my bad ears are they saying something along the lines of "kono hige ga naninani (sounds like torimodosu) no surii no snake no haibun gurai. Hige dake de."??
 
May be the same tech as in other titles(mgs4), but it's still the first time I've seen things like geometric self-shadowed creases form around facial features, neck, etc. The 4 second HD ruliweb vid is impressive.

As for epic I'll wait to see what epic does with its character models(as I've said in the past UE3 environments are excellent.), but seeing parts of the character go right through each other is just wrong, and I've been slightly dissapointed with the look of their characters in motion in the many demonstrations I've seen.

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DOF and MB, are both a given with HDR lighting. MGS has it ,with dynamic exposure.
Mgs faces have Normal mapping from probably zbrush data ,(Epic is not much into zbruch, the model all in max/maya/lightwave), but the polygon base is probably more complex.

The texturing on snake is high rez ,without doubt,the normalmaps are very defined.
Gow relies heavily on instanced geometry.
MGS is not monochrom at all(in the best quality media we have) .GOW is more monochrom,most of it is blue.
and yes ,60000 vertices moustache would be overkill.it was a joke.
Polygon and texture detail are wrong gods.Particulary this gen.
 
What the hell does HDR lighting and image space effects like DOF and motion blur have to do with each other???
 
The bottom line is a scripted cutscene is not gameplay. The graphics may be real time but the animation isn't... because you cannot control a cutscene (if you could it wouldn't be a cutscene). There is going to be a hell of a lot of crow served up when we finally do get to see MGS4 gameplay videos. ;)
 
That documentation talks about how to combine HDR effects with DOF and motion blur, not how 'HDR allows' them automatically. One of the reasons to use the combination of the two is that when applying motion blur, you'll normally fade out the high luminance areas (specular highlights for example) but with HDR, you can detect those areas and use some workaround to preserve them. So you should maybe read that ppt file again...?

Nevertheless, DOF and motion blur in their currently used realtime implementations are simple filtering effects and can be applied to any kind of a framebuffer, wether HDR or not. And if you start using HDR, you'll still have to code them.
 
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Azrael said:
The bottom line is a scripted cutscene is not gameplay. The graphics may be real time but the animation isn't... because you cannot control a cutscene (if you could it wouldn't be a cutscene). There is going to be a hell of a lot of crow served up when we finally do get to see MGS4 gameplay videos. ;)
Ok Einstein, thanks for pointing that out! For a moment there, I thought it was gameplay! Sh*t, I guess I fell for the hype, huh?! AND, I see you have a crystal ball that's telling you the game is gonna suck, is that what you're implying? Because between the bullsh*t and the winking, I really couldn't catch your drift! Sorry...

Why are you even comparing GOW to MGS4? I'm pretty confident that GOW has been in development alot longer than MGS4, so that alone suggests that you're comparing a 5yr old's ability to read to a 2yr old's! But hey, I personally think that this is one of those "freak of nature" things, when a 2yr old comes along and is actually comparable to the 5yr old...if not better!

But hey, GOW looks great, and so does MGS4...never mind if the textures on Snake's a$$ is off! Who cares?! We're about games...playing games! If you cannot appreciate a good looking game (be it a real time trailer or gameplay), then www.dumbass.com needs you...not B3D!
 
Laa-Yosh said:
Thank you for helping in getting the topic back to an intelligent level.
I'm glad you picked on me when I said that, when this whole thread is filled with trolls...but they didn't matter to you. I guess when you're all singing the same song...oh, never mind.

Look. All I'm trying to say is this argument has no merit. You guys are comparing two incomplete games...and one's been in development longer than the other. What's the point? Then we have "prophets" proclaiming that MGS4 isn't gonna play like the video suggests! I'd like to at least play it first before putting my foot in it, if you know what I mean.
 
Laa-Yosh said:
That documentation talks about how to combine HDR effects with DOF and motion blur, not how 'HDR allows' them automatically. One of the reasons to use the combination of the two is that when applying motion blur, you'll normally fade out the high luminance areas (specular highlights for example) but with HDR, you can detect those areas and use some workaround to preserve them. So you should maybe read that ppt file again...?
.

Nope ,there is shared algorithmics in these technics.You are right ,that paper doesn't explain what and how.Still ,There is strong corelation ,and the HDR approach is way better quality wise.
Btw ,mgs has MB since MGS1 and DOF since Mgs2 .
 
_phil_ said:
and yes ,60000 vertices moustache would be overkill.it was a joke.
Um, to clarify what I knew from the demonstration video

moustache = the same amount of polys as 1 character model in MGS3
(probably) hair = 60,000 vertex primitives

Mefisutoferesu said:
one, just to double check my bad ears are they saying something along the lines of "kono hige ga naninani (sounds like torimodosu) no surii no snake no haibun gurai. Hige dake de."??
I posted it in the other thread so please check it out.
 
I'm not a programmer, I'm not an animator, I'm the average shmoe, and for what it's worth, I thought the mgs4 demo looked fantastic, but there's really nothing there that's jumping out and telling my shmoe brain that this is the best looking next-gen thing I've seen so far. Sure, the Snake model is ridiculously detailed, and most likely has more dynamic facial animations, but it's friggin' Metal Gear. MGS games on ps2 always featured really great looking, highly detailed character models that were truly a notch above just about anything else on the system IMO, and I wouldn't expect anything less out of a next-gen Snake model. As far as the animation goes, I don't see how this trailer tells us anything whatsoever about the in-game animation in Mgs4. Anyone who's played through previous mgs games can tell you that the cutscenes are all composed of (very well done) motion captured animation, acted out SPECIFICALLY TO THE SCENE, and shot through dramatic, flashy camera angles, but as soon as the gameplay starts again, wer'e right back to Snake walking around in his famous Mr. Burns walk. I'm not psychic, so I can't sit here and say that'll be the case in mgs4, but I think it's kind of silly at this point to compare (stll early) gameplay footage in GOW to an in-game cutscene in mgs4 and come to any definitive conclusion as to which game has better animation. Anyway, while the Snake model may be made up of more polys and feature (probably) a wider range of facial animations, in the end I think the art styles are different to the point that it really comes down to your own personal taste. I'm a HUGE metal gear fan, and the impending mgs4 trailer was the only reason I was holding off on paying off my 360 preorder, but in the end, it just didn't impress me enough to overshadow my excitement for GOW. All that being said, I can't wait to play it someday,mainly just to find out what happens to snake's wrinkly old ass!
 
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I was going to say something inappropriate about Hideo and "in-game assets", but never mind.
 
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I think that we can't compare two different engines, GOW engine and MGS4 engine are too different (probably MGS4 engine is MGS3 engine), moreover GOW is near to be complete on Xbox360 final devkit, MGS4 is developed on PS3 alphakit, wtih 256MB of RAM XDR, without RSX and FLEX I/O, and with a Cell@2,4GHz against the final Cell@3.2GHz. For a better comparision we should compare the first PS3 game based on UE3.0 with GOW
 
NAP said:
I think that we can't compare two different engines, GOW engine and MGS4 engine are too different (probably MGS4 engine is MGS3 engine), moreover GOW is near to be complete on Xbox360 final devkit, MGS4 is developed on PS3 alphakit, wtih 256MB of RAM XDR, without RSX and FLEX I/O, and with a Cell@2,4GHz against the final Cell@3.2GHz. For a better comparision we should compare the first PS3 game based on UE3.0 with GOW

Wow voice of reason. Nice to see it here again.:smile:
 
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