Kojima MGS4 PS3 Devkit TGS show Fansubbed!

[London Geezer]

Heh, now maybe people will start realising the implications of this little "funny" rep hack and see why i'm so frustrated. Some of the private messages i had were quite important.
Oh well...

 

[rabidrabbit]

Tragic. I can imagine how it must feel. I accidentally erased my boyfriends céllphone from all contacts, notes and such and of course the backup that I thought we had, had gone wrong and all was lost. He was so depressed for days and I felt like shit I'd done that, though accidentally, it's no laughing matter when something personal is lost even if it is just bits and bytes.
I'd give you some but I must spread around some more first.
I'm sure he who did this to you must feel really really bad now, being almost christmas and all, that evil man!
Edit: Oops, sorry I'm off topic.

 

[Farid]

Vysez Advises #484

Dont take it personal.

All this is being done on high end PC's.

Do not make affirmative claims, based on nothing but your guesswork.
Use the proper tense in this case, a conditional form.

On topic, I saw the video, and the real time DOF/Focus effect is really cool. I liked that they decide to use a RT scene to render to texture the LCD on Metal Gear, nice detail.

 

[mckmas8808]

Tragic. I can imagine how it must feel. I accidentally erased my boyfriends céllphone from all contacts, notes and such and of course the backup that I thought we had, had gone wrong and all was lost.

You are a....... girl?

 

[mckmas8808]

Do not make affirmative claims, based on nothing but your guesswork.
Use the proper tense in this case, a conditional form.

On topic, I saw the video, and the real time DOF/Focus effect is really cool. I liked that they decide to use a RT scene to render to texture the LCD on Metal Gear, nice detail.

Yeah the way the made the LCD screen look like a real LCD screen with the little bump like thingys is very nice. These guys are all about detail I see.

 

[Karamazov]

when snake injects himself in the neck, you can see individual pieces of hair moving, i think that in the final game we'll have cutscenes without his bandana where we will be able to see what 60 000 verticles for hair can really add to graphics enhancements.

 

[BlueTsunami]

What I found weird was how Otacon was a tangible model with his own lighting system within the LCD. It was like a weird mirror effect and made me litteraly go "wtf" while seeing his lighting change.

 

[mckmas8808]

What I found weird was how Otacon was a tangible model with his own lighting system within the LCD. It was like a weird mirror effect and made me litteraly go "wtf" while seeing his lighting change.

Yeah I said the samething. Well I said "wth" but yeah it's crazy.

 

[zidane1strife]

I was just saying that overall, all the attention seems to be on the main character. The lighting and shadowing engine wasn't working on that wall, and we don't know how much it was working on other parts of the game like enemy soldiers. Keeping 60,000 vertices for a moustache that won't look any better over if you used 30,000 or 64 vertices making hair layers, is a waste of resources, unless you do have that many resources to burn. Whereas 60,000 vertices for a moustache makes sense (is it 60,000? That's for the hair. Moustache was more than an MGS3 enemy I thought which is like...2000?) when you're experimenting and trying out your hair solver and facial skinning tech. They can take what they learn from working in high detail to find the minumum detail needed, and so balance resource consumption to other parts of the game.

Yeah but it's likely they're experimenting within viable bounds, that that's the kind of budget they can afford for the main character, it's crazy. As they get a better grip they'll surely be able to maximize resource use for the most visual impact as you've said. But we've to put it in a budget perspective, while the trailer was rushed and thus budget not used as effectively as possible, it just seems amazing I mean that hair probably has more verts than a couple of npcs from a high-end pc title put together(say HL2.).

 

[Titanio]

it just seems amazing I mean that hair probably has more verts than a couple of npcs from a high-end pc title put together(say HL2.).

It's probably more than that. Characters in the upcoming Ghost Recon game are using ~15k polys, for example.

 

[rabidrabbit]

You are a....... girl?

No... neither is my boyfriend
Now I've watched the video, and I hope there'll be some kind of "Character demo theatre" in MGS4 where you can zoom into the models and appreciate the crazy detail.
The hair looked better that I remembered from the trailer.
I love the rendering style that makes the game look a bit like like oil painting or drawing. Good to see the creative devs are trying interesting new art rendering styles instead of just going for the standard boring bumby shiny look.
Actually that "painting" style rendering was on my wishlist for this coming gen, a fantasy adventure game done in oil painting style would be just beautiful! Imagine a game that looks like those fantasy book cover arts.
So the "Cell" will be able to assist "making the screen tarnished" with doing these kind of postprocessing effects, very interesting.

 

[mckmas8808]

No... neither is my boyfriend

What?!?! j/k

It's all good though

So the "Cell" will be able to assist "making the screen tarnished" with doing these kind of postprocessing effects, very interesting.

This is what I want to see more discussion on.

 

[mckmas8808]

It's probably more than that. Characters in the upcoming Ghost Recon game are using ~15k polys, for example.

How many vertices make up one polygon?

 

[Titanio]

How many vertices make up one polygon?

Hehe, with efficent modelling the number of polys in a model ~= number of vertices. Or as Faf would say, you can even make more polys out of fewer vertices.

To be honest I'd have to check whether the GRAW guy said 15k vertices or polys, but as above, they can often be used interchangeably if you simply want to look at a number.

 

[mckmas8808]

To be honest I'd have to check whether the GRAW guy said 15k vertices or polys, but as above, they can often be used interchangeably if you simply want to look at a number.

Interchangeably? Come on no way is that possible. Your definition of interchangeably has to be different than mine. There's no way Snake's hair is made up of 60,000 polys. You're not saying that are you?

 

[Mefisutoferesu]

I'm with rabbit, I hope developers start to bring in new post processing techniques, much like in movies where scenes are tinted to illicit a certain mood I hope we get some more artistic creativity.

Kinda pointless, but you know what would make my jaw fall straight off the hindge? If they could somehow make a metal gear game that looked exactly like Shinkawa's art.

 

[drpepper]

Interchangeably? Come on no way is that possible. Your definition of interchangeably has to be different than mine. There's no way Snake's hair is made up of 60,000 polys. You're not saying that are you?

I guess it can be. Draw a hexagon, now place a dot in the middle. Connect the corners of the hexagon to the dot. You get 6 triangles from 7 dots. So yah, you can crudley (like any good scientist/engineer) make a rough estimate saying that vertices ~= polys. So I guess they are interchangable.

Now I know this is a crude example and probably doesn't apply to game development but I think provides an example to Tatanio's claim.

 

[drpepper]

I'm with rabbit, I hope developers start to bring in new post processing techniques, much like in movies where scenes are tinted to illicit a certain mood I hope we get some more artistic creativity.

Well, I know Silent Hill always employed a form of filtering to get the "aged film" look, basically transparent noise. I found that distracting.

Kinda pointless, but you know what would make my jaw fall straight off the hindge? If they could somehow make a metal gear game that looked exactly like Shinkawa's art.

The closest thing we have is probably Okami. I would imagine Shinkawa's rendition of MGS would be a lot of work.

 

[mckmas8808]

I guess it can be. Draw a hexagon, now place a dot in the middle. Connect the corners of the hexagon to the dot. You get 6 triangles from 7 dots. So yah, you can crudley (like any good scientist/engineer) make a rough estimate saying that vertices ~= polys. So I guess they are interchangable.

Now I know this is a crude example and probably doesn't apply to game development but I think provides an example to Tatanio's claim.

Okay I did this poly/vertices test and I see the point you and Titanio are making cool. Now for the bigger question. Of course this is a rough estimate question.

How in the world can Hideo put about 60,000 polys in Snake's hair, when the outside of the cars in PGR3 (currently the best looking racing game in history bar none) are only 40,000-50,000 polys?

I'm sorry I'm just totally wowed, lost, and confused about this acheivement right now. So would it be wrong to think that the Snake character may top out around 200,000 polys?

Disclaimer: I am in no way discrediting PGR3 or what the Xbox 360 can do. Please don't take this question the wrong way. Thank you.

 

[TurnDragoZeroV2G]

How in the world can Hideo put about 60,000 polys in Snake's hair, when the outside of the cars in PGR3 (currently the best looking racing game in history bar none) are only 40,000-50,000 polys?

Relevant considerations: development time available, asset necessity (considering both what they're modeling and what impact X increase in polys would accomplish, and thus the price for that increase)