NGGP: NextGen Garbage Pile (aka: No one reads the topics or stays on topic) *spawn*

[Averagejoe]

Both Sony and Microsoft are going to have mandatory game installs. For any significant increase in next gen visuals you are also going to have an increase in the size of game assets. Optical drives won't be able to feed data fast enough to avoid incredibly long level load times. You won't even be able to feasibly stream game data from optical drives.



MS will have free apps available as well if we assume that they include access to the MS app. store which is highly likely.

And Sony can run most of today's apps IF they include Android in Orbis. Otherwise, they'll have to hope app. developers recompile their games (fixing any bugs that might come up, etc.) in order to run on the device.



Um, you do realize that Microsoft, Apple, and Google all make money off those "free" apps. right? Hence there is no reason for Microsoft to not permit free apps on Durango.

In fact, if you actually thought about it, Microsoft would VERY much desire to have as many free apps on Durango as possible. Considering they are competing against Google for Ad revenue, free games are one the best avenues to increase your share of online Ad revenue.

Regards,
SB

Do you have a back up for that.?

Because i have only read that for Durango not for Orbis,is funny how is not only secret sauce to favor Durango,now every time something bad about Durango surface,automatically is tag for Obirs as well.

Been Kinect included,Sony's camera,Online only,no second hand games,and now mandatory installs..

I don't assume anything free coming from MS,they have force people to pay to even use netflix,hulu and even facebook something even Cellphones do no extra charge,is like this generation and the one before it never happen.

So orbis will only runs apps only if it runs Android,see is like this generation did not happen,the PS3 has netflix,hulu,facebook and many others and it doesn't run android.

Oh look at the Vita for further confirmation that sony doesn't need android to run apps and run them good.

This are close boxes not PC,on PC MS does its money on windows and doesn't have to worry about losing a cent on hardware,on consoles you use and Android kind of scheme and you will loss money on hardware and your games will sell less,there is no warranty that people will go for the pay games if free games are there,hell MS has been very strict with anything free and xbox live,to the point where they block not only Epic but also Valve from releasing free content for Gears and left 4 dead,the same happen with many other developers.

So no i don't think anything will be free on durango.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Because i have only read that for Durango not for Orbis,is funny how is not only secret sauce to favor Durango,now every time something bad about Durango surface,automatically is tag for Obirs as well.

Wow, just because Microsoft does it, now it's a bad thing? Mandatory installs are the best thing that could happen for consoles as long as there's also a way to instantly start playing a game.

I think you're the first and only person I've ever run into that thought that was a bad idea.

So orbis will only runs apps only if it runs Android,see is like this generation did not happen,the PS3 has netflix,hulu,facebook and many others and it doesn't run android.

Oh look at the Vita for further confirmation that sony doesn't need android to run apps and run them good.

Ah, I get it now. You have to keep changing the goal posts if something doesn't fit into your view that the Playstation is perfect.

YOU were the one that made the claim that it will be able to run just most of todays apps.

I don't know about beating sony in app ecosystem Sony can run most of today's apps as well.

The only way Sony runs "most of today's apps" is through their Android based phones. Otherwise they are quite far behind even Microsoft (Microsoft app store). What Vita has is very paltry compared to Apple, Google, and even Microsoft's app store.

Hence, unless it's running Android or as I also said, developer's are willing to recompile their apps to run on Orbis, Sony will need to include Android to meet your own claim.

I never once said Apps won't run on Orbis. The contention is that it would run "most of today's apps."

Regards,
SB

 

[MrFox]

Wow, just because Microsoft does it, now it's a bad thing? Mandatory installs are the best thing that could happen for consoles as long as there's also a way to instantly start playing a game.

I think you're the first and only person I've ever run into that thought that was a bad idea

In the newspeak dictionary the word "Mandatory" is double plus good, it seems.

How is something so artificially forced a good thing, so much that you claim nobody ever disagree with it? Full install should be up to the user's choice and devs can always use partial installs where random I/O performance is required for streaming data in game. That's up to the devs to decide what their game requires. There's no justification to have that mandatory, the HDD in only twice the speed of the bluray drive this time around. The HDD space is limited, most games don't need installs, I'd rather save that space for games I play a lot.

(and I don't think it will be mandatory, it's probably someone who didn't understand the specs)

 

[ERP]

Mandatory installs would be required if all games for the system could be purchased online.
You have to stop games reading from both HD and Optical disc simultaneously, you need a common denominator for file system performance.

 

[MrFox]

Mandatory installs would be required if all games for the system could be purchased online.
You have to stop games reading from both HD and Optical disc simultaneously, you need a common denominator for file system performance.

But wouldn't the common denominator be the optical drive? There are already plenty of games on PS3 that are available both online and on disc, there's no mandatory install for the disc version, and online versions are over an abstraction layer for the disc data anyway. They can let the devs do what they want, as long as they are aware they can't use the ODD and the HDD in parallel during gameplay. They can still use the HDD for caching randomly access data, and they can still allow full install if users want that (which would be like the download version).

 

[ERP]

But wouldn't the common denominator be the optical drive? There are already plenty of games on PS3 that are available both online and on disc, there's no mandatory install for the disc version, and online versions are over an abstraction layer for the disc data anyway. They can let the devs do what they want, as long as they are aware they can't use the ODD and the HDD in parallel during gameplay. They can still use the HDD for random access data, and they can still allow full install if users want that.

If you choose the optical drive, a game can never depend on the extra bandwidth, and shorter seek times available from the HD.
For streaming games it would be particularly crippling.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Wouldn't caching be enough?

I'd rather not see required full installs unless drives are at least 1TB.

 

[patsu]

On PS3, the game sets up a working area on the HDD (partial install). Data is streamed from both the working area and BR (e.g. dialog and movie) at the same time.

 

[ERP]

On PS3, the game sets up a working area on the HDD (partial install). Data is streamed from both the working area and BR (e.g. dialog and movie) at the same time.

Yes but if you require games to be downloadable, they can't rely on transferring from both because it's more bandwidth than the download version has available. And that's hard to enforce if the disk version has to do it.

 

[MrFox]

The game data could still be in two pools just like the PS3.
- HDD partial install, guaranteed performance metrics based on worst-case HDD (inner track).
- ODD data, guaranteed performance metrics would the bluray drive, but optional full install/download would be faster.

Nothing stopping devs from accessing both at the same time as long as they are aware it will slow down when it's a full install/download version. They just have to do the in-game streaming from only one pools, and they can use both during loading screen.

 

[patsu]

Yes, they have to be careful about bandwidth use. FWIW, here's a list of full budget PSN games: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_full_budget_downloadable_PlayStation_3_games

If they exploit the dual HDD and BR streaming too much, the games may be difficult to convert to digital form. But other partial install games may be possible/easier.

 

[torbor]

Lets discuss what would be actually usefull apps for a game console that also should work as as mediacenter:

For me,those apps are needed and are essential:
A good Internet Browser.( someone dont really need dozens of apps when a good browsers already let them access You Tube and Facebook and the like)
A mediaplayer that support a lot of codecs.

Maybee a function to record games and upload that on Youtube and other platforms.

What else?

 

[Gubbi]

Lets discuss what would be actually usefull apps for a game console that also should work as as mediacenter:

For me,those apps are needed and are essential:
A good Internet Browser.( someone dont really need dozens of apps when a good browsers already let them access You Tube and Facebook and the like)
A mediaplayer that support a lot of codecs.

Maybee a function to record games and upload that on Youtube and other platforms.

What else?

NHL Gamecenter !

Fundamentally I want every single Win RT app. on the NextBox, using SmartGlass and Kinect (voice) for inputs.

Cheers

 

[aladin]

I totally believe these specs which are leaked. No one will talking about the specs a year or so after release. TBH I was/am not even considering xbox but I have hardly seen any decent news about it. I also think with PS4 release this year ? They may have to pay a lot for timed exclusives now. They are putting all their basket on Kinect and 3GB OS? Rather than gaming.

 

[fehu]

Behold the 27MB/s of bluray 6x!
It's even clv?
Mobile hdd are now on ~500MB/s+, I think that a bluray acces can be hidden easily

 

[Gubbi]

Behold the 27MB/s of bluray 6x!
It's even clv?
Mobile hdd are now on ~500MB/s+, I think that a bluray acces can be hidden easily

Mobile HDDs have 50 to 130MB/s sequential transfer rates from inner to outer track. Since the game developer can't decide which part of the HDD the game is going to be installed on, only 50MB/s is guaranteed.

Cheers

 

[fehu]

I was sure of the contrary :S
ehm...

 

[french toast]

For those wondering why microsoft wants always on and paid subscriptions..
http://blog.gsmarena.com/microsoft-...on-units-and-kinect-sales-reaches-24-million/

46 million PAYING xbox live subscribers....thats one hell of alot of money being raked in every month....interesting is the 24 million kinect sales (bundles?) ...microsoft could be selling the kinect 2 back to the xbox 360 crowd which would rake in another wad of money..

If microsoft is as smart as I think they are...they will utilise what me and shifty were banging on about and use the forced xbox live subscription as a subsidised contract to enable consumers to grab the system at a cost reduction..say £199 ...with kinect, box, controller,hdmi,dvr, wifi.....at that price it would be a steal.

 

[french toast]

I totally believe these specs which are leaked. No one will talking about the specs a year or so after release. TBH I was/am not even considering xbox but I have hardly seen any decent news about it. I also think with PS4 release this year ? They may have to pay a lot for timed exclusives now. They are putting all their basket on Kinect and 3GB OS? Rather than gaming.

I think you are missing the picture. ..sony will likely have a small lead on cross platform games (slightly bigger on 1st party)...where as xbox will enable things that sony can't thanks to kinect 2..

I also feel this illumiroom will be introduced as a mid life kicker similar to how kinect was.

 

[Brad Grenz]

That story in your link is incorrect. Major Nelson's tweet just says 46 million Live members. That includes both Silver and Gold levels.

Also, the latest Kinect figures imply it sold pretty badly last year, like half what it did in 2011, probably mostly in console bundles.