NGGP: NextGen Garbage Pile (aka: No one reads the topics or stays on topic) *spawn*

[Averagejoe]

And did you read the article? it say clearly, "you can play while game is installing". If everything works like it say, you will not need to wait for a 50GB installation.



Come on, how can the controller be a "secundary" thing if MS is putting a controller in each box? for me it is obvious that they now know that Kinect needs a phisical controller, the "you are the controller" slogan is a no-no for some kinds of games



Yes, you don't need a cam, but the cam have mics (as Kinect 1), then you don't need a "good mic" for voice commands if you have Kinect.



There are not new news about specs.

So i complain about space and you reply with you can play while installing.

Kinect doesn't need physical controller Kinect is the controller,now the xbox need a physical controller,but seeing how this is going it will take a second roll.

But you say you like voice command as a defense for Kinect and your self,voice command doesn't need a camera.

There are not new news about specs,because the specs did not change and llhare confirm that after SuperDae try to hint that Durango was more powerful,he use Kotaku info as shield.

 

[Averagejoe]

How fast the game installs is irrelevant if the Kotaku information is correct.

So, play the game while it installs. It is the best of both worlds. Some games on PC have tried to do this (Diablo 3, for instance). Start playing immediately like traditional consoles while at the same time have the superior level loading times of an HDD installation. All the benefits, and none of the drawbacks.


Regards,
SB

But i did not complain about slow installs,did you read my post.? Because another member also reply with the same talking about transparent install but i wasn't arguing that,in fact install don't bother me at all even when they don't allow me to play while the install take place.

I complained about a 500GB HDD because the xbox next will use blu-ray and installing all games mandatory,means a ton of space taken,blu-ray is 50GB,not all games on launch will reach that,but some will do and moving on will be worst,it takes less than 9 games to fill a 500GB disc,since they claim full install and not partial that will be a problem.

 

[Jubei]

sincerely I'm loosing interest in the "next generation" discussion as I see who is under the sources and old the infos are
I can't take console too seriously, I'm 40 and even I have some console, those are off all the time, and I don't play on pc either, but loving tech I just I'm curious to put a hand on future and deep tech that barely I can understand
I need some strong reasons to buy again a console, as power and graphics far ahead from those on pc right now (and maybe I'll buy 2 games or three, then some dust will cover the console)
just imagine how much can I care about it being sony or microsoft, just give me a reason to jump again on the boat; for this reason I will be disappointed by both if those will be the final specs, even 2 TF are nothing of special without some serious and elegant, innovative solutions to use those TF; I've just some hopes in microsoft because they can burn mountains of money in R&D and sony don't, the only thing that hurts me badly is when people forget that those infos can be very old and wants only to declare a winner, this is the stupid thing ever, remember how ended the old "it has double the TF!!!" thing? the mars + double venus that MCT is talking (imagining?) about is taken from some patents from microsoft, but who know how or when those will be real, maybe never, maybe soon, we are in the place where nobody knows, and if he knows, don't talks. simply as this

Microsoft can afford to make 2 teraflop monster. But the question is, is it worth it to them? More and more people are happy with games on their tablets/phones, PC market is declining, core gaming is not the same market it was 7 years ago. To me its clear that Microsoft has to stop Apple/Google from taking over the livingroom because as they grow, it hurts Microsofts other core busineess, the Xbox division is not the big money maker for them.

To me its obvious that Microsoft is gambling that hardcore gaming market is shrinking and is not worth the losses of a cutting edge console. They are after the casual market, the people who buy ipads, they want them to buy windows 8 pc, windows tablet and use xbox as media center

Maybe im wrong and there is an Xbox Next 2 but to me the evidence is not there for that scenario

 

[Averagejoe]

He have access to dev kits and software, the dev kit that he sells are complete, so it's not so hard that he have seen something in development, even if I think this is an exageration



I agree with you, but I'm really curious to see what devs and lucky men are looking at

He had an old dev kit,and like some one claim i am sure MS has him on black list.

SuperDae is trolling every one,he claimed new specs and give nothing but the same spec,and make a bold claim about the graphics jump been from Halo 2 to Crysis,it shows he is just trying to be a drama queen,with those specs i don't see such a big jump.

 

[expletive]

The display plane setup, as rumoured, is meant for quality of service guarantees between the game you're playing and the OS. It is not a performance enhancement. They just want to make sure the OS appears responsive, and that OS overlays are always sharp and legible.

The patents for this tech in the Durango thread specifically mention using it for improving performance (refresh rates) by allowing the title to render at something lower than 1080p wile keeping the HUD and text at 1080p.

 

[Averagejoe]

there're other "insiders" that are saying the same thing, those are the oldest specs and now the two machine going to be final, are a lot, not a bit, different from those

will be laughable if in the end durango is a Mars+ 2 Venus machine and we wasted 400+ pages of discussions for nothing

What insiders.?

Who are they.?

Because llhare from GA actually confirmed the specs did not change,what did change was the hardware use on the dev kits,because it was first using Intel CPU so the natural progression of the kit is to move toward final hardware in this case AMD,also llhare is way more trusted than SuperDae or Aegis.

The same happen with the xbox 360,and the power PC use as dev kits with X800,and some that use 6800 on SLI like Epic did.


1 mars 2 Venus so we are back to square 1,you know how big the TDP for that most be.?

While Oland has a die size of around 270mm2 featuring 3.4 Billion transistors, Venus would feature a die size of around 420mm2 with a transistor count of 5.1 Billion. The GPUs would still be manufactured on TSMC 28nm fabrication process.

So 1 mars and 2 Venus.?

I found funny how some people actually which to believe this more than the actual real specs.

 

[Averagejoe]

The patents for this tech in the Durango thread specifically mention using it for improving performance (refresh rates) by allowing the title to render at something lower than 1080p wile keeping the HUD and text at 1080p.

But that is not true 1080p..

What i get out of this is that MS really cheapen out,if you have a really strong GPU you don't have to rely on those kind of tricks,so most if not all durango games will not be native 1080p will be a mix of 720p and 1080p.

 

[torbor]

They are after the casual market, the people who buy ipads, they want them to buy windows 8 pc, windows tablet and use xbox as media center

And how exactly are they going to convince those people to buy an xbox when they offer them basicly the same what they get from competitors?
Lets face it,with the rumoured specs Durango could even be outperformed in like 2-3 years by mobile devices, not only catched up.

No one needs another me too product.

Examples like Zune proved this already.

 

[tunafish]

Lets face it,with the rumoured specs Durango could even be outperformed in like 2-3 years by mobile devices, not only catched up.

No way.

What limits the performance of tablets is power. It's not sensible to build a tablet that consumes more than 10 watts of power. Something like 2W of that is screen. Die shrinks (very optimistically) provide at most up to 50% power reduction. Over the next 2-3 years, we are going to see at most (again, very optimistically) two shrinks. Do you really think that the Durango specs as published consume less than 32W?

Given more realistic assumptions (shrinks are more like 30% reduction these days), Durango as published should be safe from portables for at least 3, probably 4 shrinks. This translates to it being safe from tablets for longer than the present-day consoles have had on the market.

 

[Jubei]

And how exactly are they going to convince those people to buy an xbox when they offer them basicly the same what they get from competitors?
Lets face it,with the rumoured specs Durango could even be outperformed in like 2-3 years by mobile devices, not only catched up.

No one needs another me too product.

Examples like Zune proved this already.

mobile devices havent even caught up to 360 yet but they will outperform something thats maybe 8X more powerful in 3 years? If you really believe that then i have a piece of land to sell you

And im not sure how this is a me too product. Durango will have the same apps and 2 hour Angry Bird games as its competitors, but it will also offer real gaming wich neither Apple or Google offer. It beats Sony in app ecosystem and it beats Apple/Google in gaming

 

[Nevod]

Indeed. I think its a fantastic feature, it will definitely help in reducing load time.

Anyway as for the kinect 2.0 itself, it seems to have been massively improved in all areas. Can track more players (from 2-6), can track more points and with greater fidelity, the color camera res has been massively improved, the depth camera res has been doubled, the range has been increased and it seems to have added an IR camera for increased tracking. If the rumors are true that they are switching to a time-of-flight camera tech, then that will reduce latency. Hopefully has an internal processor as that will also reduce latency I feel. Mind you, the original kinect can perform better than it is actually performing but for the usb data transfer limit.

I somehow doubt they will use a TOF camera, as the Kotaku article's implied depth resolution seems higher than usual for a TOF cam. Structured light scanners seem to be both most precise, massive volume capable and quite fast technology as well ( the speed improvements are rather recent though).

 

[Billy Idol]

I really don't like the idea of alternative input devices/strategies...and the constant praising kinect/move gets...really gets on my nerve.

I have rather low space available for my gaming hobby. There is the TV with all the consoles and PC, then there is the couch, about two meters away. In-between is a couch table. I am used to comfy couch gamepad gaming and don't want to miss it to be honest. I don't have space and really no interest in jumping around in front of the screen. Furthermore, space is limited that the direct sight to my consoles from couch is blocked by the couch table. I also don't want to change my room to enable a feature I don't even want. If such devices are mandatory, this would be the second fundamental disappointment (first being the low specs) with the next gen consoles. I hope people/devs get sane and don't force me to play Halo5 with kinect or GoW4 with move.

 

[Gerry]

I hope people/devs get sane and don't force me to play Halo5 with kinect or GoW4 with move.

I doubt whether they will. Even if Kinect definitely is bundled I doubt whether there will be any mandatory requirement to use it. I'm sure the UI will be tailored for Kinect usage and I'm sure there'll be Kinect-only games as there are now (probably more if bundling is confirmed). But I doubt whether there'll be anything that can't be done with a standard controller. There are too many people in your situation where Kinect is impractical/unwanted and I can't see MS ignoring this sizeable group. So you may have to live with paying for something you don't need/want but I think you'll still get the same core experience, just without wavy hand gestures.

 

[Colourless]

It the display planes are combined on scan out then it would even allow for some planes to be v-syned and others not without performance loss.

The most useful things that the display planes do is obvious resolution independence for UI overlays, and it will also allow for 60 Hz smooth UI updates even if the game rendering is extremely demanding and updating a lot slower than 60 Hz.

 

[Averagejoe]

mobile devices havent even caught up to 360 yet but they will outperform something thats maybe 8X more powerful in 3 years? If you really believe that then i have a piece of land to sell you

And im not sure how this is a me too product. Durango will have the same apps and 2 hour Angry Bird games as its competitors, but it will also offer real gaming wich neither Apple or Google offer. It beats Sony in app ecosystem and it beats Apple/Google in gaming

You forgot the part of free gaming on google,tons of games are free,i have play games on android that would probably cost $15 or more on live or PSN.

In fact there is even online FPS free to play..

Not only that MS will attach a dollar sign to basically any game,on Android and Ios most casual games are free.

I don't know about beating sony in app ecosystem Sony can run most of today's apps as well.

 

[Scott_Arm]

The patents for this tech in the Durango thread specifically mention using it for improving performance (refresh rates) by allowing the title to render at something lower than 1080p wile keeping the HUD and text at 1080p.

The patent mentions allowing the resolution of the plane to change with each frame, allowing dynamic resolution. I don't think it does anything to do that for you, or make it really easy. You'd still have to implement it in software, like Rage did. In this case, you just get the scaling and a full-res HUD at all times.

 

[torbor]

I don't know about beating sony in app ecosystem Sony can run most of today's apps as well.

Exactly. Its not that it cant offer something like a netflix app what even the actual machines already do.
So someone may wonder what those magical media apps will be that competitors wont/cant offer...

 

[Averagejoe]

Exactly. Its not that it cant offer something like a netflix app what even the actual machines already do.
So someone may wonder what those magical media apps will be that competitors wont/cant offer...

Probably more integration than anything else,more if it is windows based,they are trying to do everything integrated kind like they did with the xbox 360 probably but a step further.

 

[rockaman]

I wonder how Sony will expand/not expand their PS mobile presence.

Will I be able to similarly download free games from PS mobile onto my PS4 for a quick gaming fix?

Will PS mobile even be compatible with PS4? Sony and Rovio insist on asking for 40 USD to play Angry Birds on PS3 through the PS Store, which is frankly just unreasonable.

Opening up one segment of games on the system and giving a lower entry fee to develop is a good idea I think. I'm pretty sure a PS mobile development software only costs 99 USD today. Why not let those developers tailor experiences compatible with Vita and PS4?

And since everything uses touch interfaces, why not make it compatible with PS Move? My favourite free game on Android is Fruit Ninja, I'd love to play a 1080p version of that on my PS4 for free using Move. I wouldn't mind the advertisements like I don't mind them on my phone either (I don't even see them tbh).

Just let developers go wild on PS4. Let them port Android/iOS software into a limited access area of PS4 and just let them do what they want with minigames and infinity runners and slicers and whatever. Just give them access to a couple of CPU cores, I'm sure that would be enough.

This is one of the things I wonder if Sony has taken the initiative to take on, but I'm not expecting anything of the sort. I just think it would be nice if it happened.

 

[Jubei]

You forgot the part of free gaming on google,tons of games are free,i have play games on android that would probably cost $15 or more on live or PSN.

In fact there is even online FPS free to play..

Not only that MS will attach a dollar sign to basically any game,on Android and Ios most casual games are free.

I don't know about beating sony in app ecosystem Sony can run most of today's apps as well.

The problem with this argument is that you are comparing it to Xbox 360. Durango is a different business model. You can download free games on Windows RT/Windows 8 aswell, why would Microsoft have a problem with free games? They will get a cut out of the ad revenue or the IAP either way.

And i dont see the controversy about beating Sony, unless they incorporate Android into PS4, they will easily have the smallest ecosystem, Microsoft will leverage their existing Windows 8 store into Xbox, by 2014 it should be fairly decent