NGGP: NextGen Garbage Pile (aka: No one reads the topics or stays on topic) *spawn*

[dumbo11]

Oh I forgot kinect 2 also has IR tracking.. @ 512 × 424 resolution. ..not entirely sure what advantage this would provide...

It's not IR tracking, it's an active IR camera.

Basically if you switch off the 'special kinect IR light source' and use a standard IR lightsource then you will get an IR iluminated image aka an active IR camera (or 'nightvision').

I assume this would work well for video chat etc in zero-light environments or "something"? (the 512x424 resolution for the image is a bit weird, as the raw image should be far higher resolution)

 

[Love_In_Rio]

It's not IR tracking, it's an active IR camera.

Basically if you switch off the 'special kinect IR light source' and use a standard IR lightsource then you will get an IR iluminated image aka an active IR camera (or 'nightvision').

I assume this would work well for video chat etc in zero-light environments or "something"? (the 512x424 resolution for the image is a bit weird, as the raw image should be far higher resolution)

Well, then i said nothing about distances

 

[patsu]

What is Kinect 2's framerate ? Is it using time of flight or the existing light coding method or something else ?

 

[Averagejoe]

For those wondering why microsoft wants always on and paid subscriptions..
http://blog.gsmarena.com/microsoft-...on-units-and-kinect-sales-reaches-24-million/

46 million PAYING xbox live subscribers....thats one hell of alot of money being raked in every month....interesting is the 24 million kinect sales (bundles?) ...microsoft could be selling the kinect 2 back to the xbox 360 crowd which would rake in another wad of money..

If microsoft is as smart as I think they are...they will utilise what me and shifty were banging on about and use the forced xbox live subscription as a subsidised contract to enable consumers to grab the system at a cost reduction..say £199 ...with kinect, box, controller,hdmi,dvr, wifi.....at that price it would be a steal.

Is not 46 million paying for gold,MS always count silver with gold is something they have done since day 1 to create the impression of the user base been bigger than it is,and to motivate more to join.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

What is Kinect 2's framerate ?

We don't know.

Is it using time of flight or the existing light coding method or something else ?

We don't know.

 

[Billy Idol]

http://ilikecode.wordpress.com/2013/02/12/stupid-stupid-xbox/

A good read on some of what's wrong with the Xbox division by one of the founders of the original Xbox project.

Interesting read, thanks for the link. Although I think that he is too pessimistic.

Furthermore, I have a hard time accepting the following: can you really compare a xbox gamer to an ipad gamer? Someone who plays gears, mass effect, forza, cod or halo on xbox. Is this gamer really interested in iOs type games and iOs type apps? If he is interested, don't we have to assume that he/she already has such a device?

I find it hard to compare and to extrapolate a potential market. There are numbers floating around that from 76mill xbox sold, only 24mill bought kinect. I am surprised that it is even this high, but wonder if this maybe represents the 'casual' part of the xbox users? What about the other 50mill gamers?

 

[MrFox]

It's not IR tracking, it's an active IR camera.

Basically if you switch off the 'special kinect IR light source' and use a standard IR lightsource then you will get an IR iluminated image aka an active IR camera (or 'nightvision').

I assume this would work well for video chat etc in zero-light environments or "something"? (the 512x424 resolution for the image is a bit weird, as the raw image should be far higher resolution)

I think it could be what bkilian suggested earlier: MS bought a 3D camera company but couldn't use that technology for Kinect 1, maybe they used it for Kinect 2. That technology is ToF (time of flight), which has fair chances of being better than PrimeSense, and probably less expensive to MS because it would be their own company.

If the ToF camera works with a full field pulse of infrared (instead of a pattern like primesense), it basically comes with an IR image "for free". They might as well expose it to the developers. This image could be useful for face detection and anything the RGB camera would usually be used for, but without any low-light issues.

 

[dumbo11]

I think it could be what bkilian suggested earlier: MS bought a 3D camera company but couldn't use that technology for Kinect 1, maybe they used it for Kinect 2. That technology is ToF (time of flight), which has fair chances of being better than PrimeSense, and probably less expensive to MS because it would be their own company.

If the ToF camera works with a full field pulse of infrared (instead of a pattern like primesense), it basically comes with an IR image "for free". They might as well expose it to the developers. This image could be useful for face detection and anything the RGB camera would usually be used for, but without any low-light issues.

As far as I know, time of flight cameras are (still) several magnitudes too expensive, and comparatively low resolution.

e.g. the most well-known ToF camera is the Swiss Ranger, which has dropped significantly in price...
http://www.acroname.com/robotics/parts/R317-SR4000-CW.html

Kinect2 is most likely an evolution of kinect, it potentially could even be some form of stereoscopic thing... but AFAIK ToF isn't a realistic possibility in 2013.

 

[temesgen]

For those wondering why microsoft wants always on and paid subscriptions..
http://blog.gsmarena.com/microsoft-...on-units-and-kinect-sales-reaches-24-million/

46 million PAYING xbox live subscribers....thats one hell of alot of money being raked in every month....interesting is the 24 million kinect sales (bundles?) ...microsoft could be selling the kinect 2 back to the xbox 360 crowd which would rake in another wad of money..

If microsoft is as smart as I think they are...they will utilise what me and shifty were banging on about and use the forced xbox live subscription as a subsidised contract to enable consumers to grab the system at a cost reduction..say £199 ...with kinect, box, controller,hdmi,dvr, wifi.....at that price it would be a steal.

The Kinect figure is impressive, it wasn't a cheap addition by any means and they managed to get a decent installed based in a relatively short amount of time.

Personally I am still skeptical about paid Live in the next generation. I don't see gamers paying 50/yr for online MP and not allowing access to things like Netflix without it when you can play COD that looks just as good for free on PSN isn't likely. Of course there will be the hardcore Halo/Gears crowd who will do whatever MS wants but I think for there are quite a few who would rather not be forced to pay for Live. Now if MS starts to add value like Sony does with Plus all bets are off.

 

[french toast]

The Kinect figure is impressive, it wasn't a cheap addition by any means and they managed to get a decent installed based in a relatively short amount of time.

Personally I am still skeptical about paid Live in the next generation. I don't see gamers paying 50/yr for online MP and not allowing access to things like Netflix without it when you can play COD that looks just as good for free on PSN isn't likely. Of course there will be the hardcore Halo/Gears crowd who will do whatever MS wants but I think for there are quite a few who would rather not be forced to pay for Live. Now if MS starts to add value like Sony does with Plus all bets are off.

I havnt seen the features of plus...what does that entail thats different than gold?

 

[MrFox]

As far as I know, time of flight cameras are (still) several magnitudes too expensive, and comparatively low resolution.

e.g. the most well-known ToF camera is the Swiss Ranger, which has dropped significantly in price...
http://www.acroname.com/robotics/parts/R317-SR4000-CW.html

Kinect2 is most likely an evolution of kinect, it potentially could even be some form of stereoscopic thing... but AFAIK ToF isn't a realistic possibility in 2013.

ToF sensors are made on standard CMOS process, so maybe large volume is the key, right now it's only used for industrial machine vision

 

[Gerry]

I havnt seen the features of plus...what does that entail thats different than gold?

You get given lots of free games (as long as you're a PS+ member).

 

[patsu]

I havnt seen the features of plus...what does that entail thats different than gold?

http://us.playstation.com/psn/playstation-plus/
http://uk.playstation.com/playstationplus/

EU free game selection is said to be better than US.

 

[Scott_Arm]

As far as I know, time of flight cameras are (still) several magnitudes too expensive, and comparatively low resolution.

e.g. the most well-known ToF camera is the Swiss Ranger, which has dropped significantly in price...
http://www.acroname.com/robotics/parts/R317-SR4000-CW.html

Kinect2 is most likely an evolution of kinect, it potentially could even be some form of stereoscopic thing... but AFAIK ToF isn't a realistic possibility in 2013.

The time-of-flight product that Microsoft purchased was meant to cost less than $100. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZCam

The listed specs for the ZCam are pretty old, so in that time it could have improved a bit.

 

[temesgen]

I havnt seen the features of plus...what does that entail thats different than gold?

I think its 1G of cloud storage for game saves, free games for the life of your subscription, discounts on games and early access to demos. There may be more, I'm going from memory at this point.

 

[AlphaWolf]

So the free games is really the only difference from live. Although xbox rewards gives free points, but that might just be North America.

 

[french toast]

I think its 1G of cloud storage for game saves, free games for the life of your subscription, discounts on games and early access to demos. There may be more, I'm going from memory at this point.

Thanks guys. .wow that is actually pretty good...if thats the case they need all that at least if its compulsory.

 

[MrFox]

So the free games is really the only difference from live. Although xbox rewards gives free points, but that might just be North America.

There's also the automatic updates/patches (PS3 turns on nightly to download and install all available patches/firmwares, then turns off) and there are full game trials which isn't the same thing as demos, it's really the full game.

 

[patsu]

So the free games is really the only difference from live. Although xbox rewards gives free points, but that might just be North America.

Main difference is free online gaming.

Instant (12 or 6 free) game collection and monthly "free" game are probably the main draw for PS+.

Monthly discounts is next. These are different from the seasonal PSN discounts. I think Sony also dropped Music Unlimited subscription to $1/month for PS+ users.

Fan services like early access seem popular too. Cloud storage for locked game saves is the one that got me. Automated update and download are just convenience features so the updates don't ever get in your way.

I haven't heard any Gaffer rave about the full game trial yet. I think this should be replaced by Gaikai game trial.

 

[Hecatoncheires]

Yea perhaps glasses will be the next step...wouldnt be suprised if sony countered with a concept like this..full virtual world. ...that would be amazing, and a proper reposte to Microsofts mid life kicker illumiroom.

Shuhei Yoshida of Sony Worldwide Studios teased that on Twitter a couple of weaks ago. On paper Orbis GPU looks very powerful compared to Durango, the new PlayStation might be supporting an optional 3D VR-device like Oculus Rift (or a HMZ-T) with 2x720p/30FPS.