News & Rumors: Xbox One (codename Durango)

[Shifty Geezer]

Anyways point being one big problem with skyping via couch is that we end up looking tiny. The camera on our pc isn't smart so it just shows the entire field of view.

What Ms is doing shows good consideration of the users and improving the system. I just think Kinect is a little overkill. It can do it better than any other system, but a simple tweak to the Skype software could face-detect and crop+pan appropriately. Okay, it may not track when you walk out the room to get your dog, but it could easily catch up when you return. It's a good software solution that doesn't need Kinect. You'd get 90% sort of thing from a simpler technology.

You can do everything with the controller if you want, but why would you if the voice control is faster?

Some people will like. I've mentioned before I don't fancy talking to the TV as an interface. But, as above, I can't help but feel Kinect is a solution looking for a problem. It's not like buttons were a crippling imposition to using a device. Well, maybe it is with Joe Mom and Joe Pop and they're the real target, but for gamers, I doubt voice control brings anything of substantial value beyond the novelty factor. It's certainly not necessary for the task switching aspect. The only requirement for the expensive Kinect is the search for content by name, both games and TV, and that's really only for the voice isolation - you could achieve the same with a headset. Or putting it another way, of everything shown regards the smoothness of the task switching and features, you could have a button to task switch, face recognition to camera-track in Skype, and a headset for voice control or even basic mic as long as there isn't lots of background noise, and you'll have the same experience pretty much without needing $100 of cutting-edge depth camera.

I'd like to see more made of the camera. I'd like to see the fabled Minority Report interface, with user grabbing and moving UI elements etc. The real objective for motion controls has to be towards completely intuitive interfaces that don't need any explanation, similar to touch interface evolution. Kinect presently is a fancy microphone which is a real waste of potential.

 

[temesgen]

Yup, that is exactly right. Consoles are low end pc's, they are of little interest for games. Why would I downgrade my gaming experience compared to what I have now on pc let alone tomorrow as I upgrade gpu's whenever I want? That makes no sense at all.

How is it downgrading the experience if most can't tell the difference??? People seem to want exaggerate difference or pretend the don't exist....

Edit: it just seems to me that some want to downplay differences or accentuate them for ulterior motives. Citing the PC makes as much sense to me as referring people to DSLRs when they talk about cell phone camera quality as a qualifier for what phone to buy. Of course PC has better graphics but what percent of the market will buy high end PCs to play games when they can buy a new console for 400 to 500 or tablet for instance.....

 

[joker454]

How is it downgrading the experience if most can't tell the difference??? People seem to want exaggerate difference or pretend the don't exist....

Well I was talking about myself of course, I can spot differences easily. For everyone else, your mileage will vary.

What Ms is doing shows good consideration of the users and improving the system. I just think Kinect is a little overkill. It can do it better than any other system, but a simple tweak to the Skype software could face-detect and crop+pan appropriately. Okay, it may not track when you walk out the room to get your dog, but it could easily catch up when you return. It's a good software solution that doesn't need Kinect. You'd get 90% sort of thing from a simpler technology.

Face tracking still doesn't work 100% though, even on my current video camera's it often gets fooled because it doesn't have enough data to go by. Sometimes armpits get detected as faces, or items in the background etc, it's not reliable enough. The only reason it's accepted on current cameras is because the sensors are so small and depth of field so deep that even when they get face tracking wrong you can typically still end up with a usable picture since it's used purely for focus in that case. But try face tracking though on a full frame sensor camera at f2.0 and it becomes much more obvious how wrong it often is as the focus hunts around. Wrong in the case of slight focus error is one thing, but wrong in the case of skype cropping video to someones armpit instead of their face is a bigger issue. Skeleton tracking helps a lot there because it gives you more data points to use for tracking purposes. That also helps when trying to crop to more than just the persons face as well, you can keep their entire body in frame with skeletal tracking. With just face detection you might get their face right on some of the frames, but then have to guess where the rest of the body is. In that respect I don't think it's overkill. With kinect I can look away from the camera and keep talking to my friend on the other end, and skype will still be able to crop to me even when my face isn't visible because it can track my skeleton. I can wear sunglasses, or have long hair covering my face and it will still be able to track me just fine. Face detection alone would fails in many such cases.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

If image recognition isn't up to the job, then I agree with you.

 

[joker454]

If image recognition isn't up to the job, then I agree with you.

Well it's both that is isn't 100% accurate yet, and in many cases it just can't work depending on how the person looks or what they are doing. Like if you are filming a girl and her hair partly blocks one of her eyes, then even the best face tracking algorithms will have a hard time. Likewise if people want to be doing something else while on a skype call that involves them looking away from the camera. The best face tracking code available can't work if there isn't a visible face to track. These are issues that become more prevalent when you are skyping via your main tv or from your living room, compared to skyping from your laptop or phone. Like we have often been in the kitchen in the middle of a skype call, either cooking, cleaning or whatever, just walking around doing our thing and chatting since our tv room is next to the kitchen and all open. Right now it's kind a shitty since we appear tiny on the video in that case, but kinect would solve that which is kinda cool. Likewise with kinect's extra microphones and audio processing, I wonder if it could be smart enough to cancel noises from the kitchen and focus more on our voices. Stuff like that could be cool if they could pull that off.

 

[dobwal]

I don't see what's wrong with pressing a button to the menu and navigating to the desired app.

I ask myself that every time my wife asks me to make sure her favorite show is recorded to the DVR (the DVR has been programmed to record the series for two years, yet she asks me every week.)

Some devices (not saying the Xbox will) can revolutionize a market simply by making already available functionality more generally accessible.

And if I have learned anything its that button pushing and GUI navigation still presents a major barrier to a lot of people whether it be in the PC or AV space.

If I can get my wife to handle her own DVR desires using the XB1's voice commands it will be a win in my book.

I think voice control will be the tool that will ultimately unlock for the masses a lot useful technology that mostly serves niche markets. Voice commands are a lot easier to teach as well as learn and can be done passively. Furthermore, it can basically provide a simple flat interface while allowing complex functionality.

 

[egoless]

Delete

 

[blakjedi]

Well it's both that is isn't 100% accurate yet, and in many cases it just can't work depending on how the person looks or what they are doing. Like if you are filming a girl and her hair partly blocks one of her eyes, then even the best face tracking algorithms will have a hard time. Likewise if people want to be doing something else while on a skype call that involves them looking away from the camera. The best face tracking code available can't work if there isn't a visible face to track. These are issues that become more prevalent when you are skyping via your main tv or from your living room, compared to skyping from your laptop or phone. Like we have often been in the kitchen in the middle of a skype call, either cooking, cleaning or whatever, just walking around doing our thing and chatting since our tv room is next to the kitchen and all open. Right now it's kind a shitty since we appear tiny on the video in that case, but kinect would solve that which is kinda cool. Likewise with kinect's extra microphones and audio processing, I wonder if it could be smart enough to cancel noises from the kitchen and focus more on our voices. Stuff like that could be cool if they could pull that off.

According to bkilian and some early reports the mics are very good at noise canceling. I think the fact that the Kinect uses, light, heat, skeletal and voice mapping simultaneously to ensure proper authentication is remarkable.

 

[spraytech]

Love that new video of UI. That's exactly the kinda stuff I had questions about. I wanna see the Kinect tech put too use since it's now included. That video actually makes the whole platform seem like a next gen system instead of just a bump in graphics. Can't wait

 

[Billy Idol]

Finally had time to watch the 12min X1 dashboard tour...um...I have to say that I am impressed. I admit that the Kinect stuff is indeed quite cool for navigating.

The auto multi user login is magic imo...skype person tracking is sci fi style.

 

[-tkf-]

Finally had time to watch the 12min X1 dashboard tour...um...I have to say that I am impressed. I admit that the Kinect stuff is indeed quite cool for navigating.

The auto multi user login is magic imo...skype person tracking is sci fi style.

Yep, that was a very nice demo, clearly shows the power of the Kinect, i was thinking "awesome i can get skype that actually makes sense" until it occured to me that i would have to pay for Gold to use it.

When they get XBOX rdy for my country i am going to try a month and see if it's worth it.

I am very satisfied with what they showed, excellent work from Microsoft.

 

[-tkf-]

A "real" demo here, notice the number in the () top right corner, it shows the time it took to get the command..

http://www.theverge.com/2013/11/8/5080874/exclusive-video-xbox-one-dashboard-hands-on-first-look

When it works it's fast, and it does most of the time, and i guess it can only improve the longer you own the console.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

A "real" demo here, notice the number in the () top right corner, it shows the time it took to get the command..

I'm unconvinced it's really smoother and faster than pressing a button on the controller to bring up the menu, at least for a seasoned gamer. What would annoy me most, and why I hate voice input, is you have to put on an affectation rather than talk naturally. I don't know how far away we are from that level of voice control, whether cloud analysis will move us towards there rapidly, or if the hardware isn't up to it. I hope the former.

Also if you need to know the content locations to access stuff ("what's on Hulu"), instead of naming a product/service and being taken to it from anywhere, that adds a sense of faff. I expect that can be solved with improving the software and providing a content search.

 

[XpiderMX]

I'm unconvinced it's really smoother and faster than pressing a button on the controller to bring up the menu, at least for a seasoned gamer. What would annoy me most, and why I hate voice input, is you have to put on an affectation rather than talk naturally. I don't know how far away we are from that level of voice control, whether cloud analysis will move us towards there rapidly, or if the hardware isn't up to it. I hope the former.

Also if you need to know the content locations to access stuff ("what's on Hulu"), instead of naming a product/service and being taken to it from anywhere, that adds a sense of faff. I expect that can be solved with improving the software and providing a content search.

"Xbox... Go Forza motorsport 5" is faster than navigatr with the stick to the launch icon.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

If you already have the game on the launch page as the last thing you were doing, it's a button press, a few directional movements, and another button press. Compared to possibly having to say, "Xbox... Go Forza Motorsport 5" twice, the button is a more robust solution.

We'll see when the box is out whether gamers prefer to talk to their console or use old-school buttons. I could just be a dinosaur, unwilling to get with the times.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Voice is going to be faster for anything not on the current page, and for whenever the controller isn't in your hand.

 

[RudeCurve]

Voice is going to be faster for anything not on the current page, and for whenever the controller isn't in your hand.

Yep, the first thing to come to mind is searching for stuff whether it's a game, movie, song, channel, or stuff you want to search on the internet.

 

[Cyan]

Finally had time to watch the 12min X1 dashboard tour...um...I have to say that I am impressed. I admit that the Kinect stuff is indeed quite cool for navigating.

The auto multi user login is magic imo...skype person tracking is sci fi style.

It looks like that the mainstream public are going to love the new dashboard, judging by previews like this where a journalist tried the new Xbox dashboard and wrote an article called "I Spent An Afternoon With The Xbox One And It Was Amazing"

http://www.businessinsider.com/xbox-one-dashboard-demo-review-2013-11

She praised the Kinect, the new gamepad, and the new experience around the console, although she couldn't try any game yet.

 

[DrJay24]

"Xbox... Go Forza motorsport 5" is faster than navigatr with the stick to the launch icon.

If it's running already like the demo it won't be faster than a quick list of last used apps, like Android has. That voice stuff is going to get old fast for basic stuff. It's a novelty now.

 

[AzBat]

I could just be a dinosaur, unwilling to get with the times.

This. +million.

I think if you had actually used Kinect on a daily basis you might be more open to it. I try to use voice a lot more than before because now I don't have to worry about looking for the controller, making sure it's charged, turning it on, etc. I walk into my living room, sit down & say "Xbox" whatever. I won't ever go back to the old way again. And seeing Kinect 2 work like that in the new video just reinforces it.

BTW, showed the wife the new video. I haven't shown her anything about Xbox One at all until then. She was really impressed & thinks its great, but she's more thrifty than I am & still don't think it's worth $500. I think with a price drop I can convince her, especially if they offer a subsidized plan.

Tommy McClain