Middle Generation Console Upgrade Discussion [Scorpio, 4Pro]

Discussion in 'Console Industry' started by mpg1, May 25, 2016.

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  1. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    its the next level of gaming. People thought heavy rain and tell tale stories were too basic. Players have gone ahead and taken it to the next level themselves
     
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  2. LightHeaven

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    If one userbase resets to zero it will be imediatelly lower than a one that doesn't.
     
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  3. mosen

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    Scorpio won't have true exclusives (considering most of MS 1st Party exclusive will come to W10 too) so some people which have more powerful PC won't buy it? Ok then.

    What about those people who have weaker PCs than Scorpio? What about those PC owners who want to play games from other publishers that are only available on consoles (FFXV for example)? What about those PC owners who like to have more options to play games (different places to play same games/Play Anywhere/Cross-Buy)? What about those PC owners who like to share their own games with other family members/friend through XPA without spending more money? What about those PC owners who like to take the advantage of some Xbox services? What about those people who like to use their accessories (Xbox controllers or W10 VR/AR headsets, etc.) in Windows 10 ecosystem?

    Exclusives aren't everything.
     
  4. MrFox

    MrFox Deludedly Fantastic
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    What about those people who's most cherished passion in life will be to cosplay the strong women character expected to feature in Awesome: Robot Dinosaurs 2, only available on PS5? What about them?
     
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  5. BRiT

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    Maybe they can get help at insane asylums before then ...
     
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  6. goonergaz

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    Ok, let me explain it another way.

    1 year ago;
    I am a gamer with a powerful PC and want to play 'xbox exclusive x' as such I will have to buy a XBO

    Soon;
    I am a gamer with a powerful PC so if I want to play 'xbox exclusive x' I can
    I am a gamer with a medium powerful PC so if I want to play 'xbox exclusive x' I can upgrade my PC
    I am a gamer with a week PC so if I want to play 'xbox exclusive x' I can either get a new PC or buy Scorpio

    As for 3rd party games then get a PS4 Pro, you get the PS exclusives and all the 3rd party doubt anyone
    Game sharing? Can be done on PC - and you don't have to pay for Live
    I have an Elite controller for my PC so not sure what you're getting at
    Also PC has a kind of play anywhere so...
    I also don't fully understand some of your other comments (maybe some examples might help?)

    Of course some people will buy it, I'm just saying by default the market is smaller, much like we've seen with the Pro - not selling as well as the PS4 because it's not needed but a nice to have for people with either the cash or need for the best...and most people with a need for the best already have a half decent PC.
     
  7. Silent_Buddha

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    This is true. However, people in gaming forums continue to vastly over-estimate how many people with a powerful gaming PC also own a current generation console. As well as vastly over-estimating how many current gen console owners have a powerful gaming PC. That's to be expected as people who tend to do that also tend to gravitate to internet gaming forums.

    In the consumer market, that represents a drop in the bucket. Perhaps larger than a rounding error, but not much more so.

    The advent of Twitch streaming and YouTube VODs of people playing through games, has also reduced the number of people that bother to have both a powerful gaming PC and a current generation console.

    Where you see a bit more overlap is when people don't have a powerful PC due to the cost of constantly upgrading it or problems associated with it (I currently absolutely HATE the experience in Windows with the GTX 1070 which was a performance upgrade from a R9 290 but is a downgrade in terms of Windows stability). You'll find there's quite a few people that have a PC for playing indie games and a console for playing AAA games. A console is a far cheaper option for playing AAA games than a PC (comparing new to new or used to used).

    All of which means that while there would be some people that won't see the point of a Project Scorpio if they already have a powerful PC, it's not something that is likely to greatly affect the sale of Project Scorpio. Much like PS4-P, it's going to have to try to convince people that the value proposition is worth it over the base PS4. However, unlike the PS4-P, it represents a potentially higher value proposition as the performance gap between it and the base model is far larger. Whether that's a significantly higher value proposition or just a minor increase in the value proposition remains to be seen.

    Regards,
    SB
     
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  8. KirkSi

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    Spot on. If the sales of the PS4 Pro aren't good then it's absolutely down to their confused message on what benefits it gives in which games. If MS get their messaging right, and as you say it should be easier to show the difference due to the greater delta, then they should hopefull`y fair a bit better.
     
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  9. goonergaz

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    The problem is right here, Scorpio is aimed at those early adopters of XBO who are hardcore MS fans willing to upgrade. If Pro had a mixed message then how about Scorpio? Substantially more powerful than XBO but won't have exclusives and seems to be quite expensive form the wording used by MS. It will be (software wise) linked to XBO so all it will offer is better performance for current gen games. I guess there will be a market for those who want the ultimate console version of CoD and BF (etc), but again that's a small segment of the market.

    Well I'm interested to see this clear difference they have spoken about, clearly there will be between XBO and Scorpio but from Pro to Scorpio? I think you will need to be eagle eyed and have a very large 4K TV due to the relatively small jump (can you imagine anything being clearly better than Horizon?)
     
  10. mpg1

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    Yeah for Xbox fans there might be a larger motivation to upgrade to Scorpio than there was for Sony fans to upgrade to PS4 Pro because:

    1. The narrative behind XBO from the start was that it was the weaker console.
    2. The jump in specs will be more substantial than was for PS4->PS4 Pro.
    3. Microsoft will likely have much larger push/marketing force behind Scorpio than Sony did with PS4 Pro.

    I expect 1 million Scorpio units to be sold in 2017...
     
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  11. KirkSi

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    The XBox day one buyers, by the time Scorpio launches, will have had four years of being on the wrong end of digital foundry comparisons. They'll be ready to upgrade alright. Why did the PS4 players have to upgrade? They already had the most powerful console, the better version of the multi-plats and their first party games were just starting to spin up some truly great games. I can understand why the Pro hasn't sold well. I can also see why Scorpio will do better.
     
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  12. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
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    Choice of console is to be on the winning end of pixel-counting competitions? Why did these DF readers not buy PS4 in the first place when it was obviously going to outperform XB1? They all (25 millionish) read and fell for MisterX dual-GPU nonsense?
     
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  13. mpg1

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    Basically my belief as well. I really wonder how well PS4 Pro will do sales wise after Scorpio launches?

    With regards to mainstream consumers there's the risk for Sony is it gets squeezed "into the middle" of the various consoles based on price and performance in which consumers either choose the cheaper option or the best option but not the middle option (ie if I'm going to spend more that the cheapest option(ps4, xbo) I might as well just get the best).

    With regards to PS4 owners there's the potential for Scorpio(achieving better res/performance on AAA multiplats than PS4 Pro) killing the motivation for PS4 owners to upgrade to PS4 Pro even further (ie I'll just wait until PS5)
     
    #3073 mpg1, Mar 5, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2017
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  14. KirkSi

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    Can't speak for everyone, only myself. I bought the more expensive XB1 at launch knowing it was the weaker console, but it didn't mean I was happy about it. I'd be surprised to find a gamer happy at buying the weaker console. For me it came down to where my friends were playing, XBox live over PSN and the controller. I'm know a lot of people say a controller isn't a good enough reason to choose one console over another but for me I just hate the stick configuration of a dual shock. My hands cramp up after half an hour. The offset sticks on the XBox I can play for hours. I thought the difference in games would be marginal, so bought the XBox. In an ideal world I'd have been on the other side of that margin (as I will be with the Scorpio), but the other reasons were enough for me to choose XB1 over PS4.
     
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  15. wco81

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    XBL, Kinect 2 hype, magical thinking that X360 produced better looking games despite coming out earlier than PS3 so it will happen again, etc.
     
  16. mosen

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    Who said that Scorpio only aimed early XB1 adopters?

    Also Scorpio might be considered as a premium console now, but 2-3 years later it will be a 250-300$ product with different propose alongside Scorpio 2, unlike PS4Pro.
     
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  17. goonergaz

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    Have you tried the DS4? It's a massive improvement on DS4, Sony really closed the gap but I can understand people prefer XB controllers.

    That and brand loyalty, and dare I say exclusives (Halo and Forza in particular). I know my mate at work was thinking DX12 would close the gap - it was like listening to MrXMedia (or whatever his names was) - before the specs were official "there's no way MS would give Sony power advantage" when official "there's rumour of a 2nd GPU" then more recently "DX12 will put XBO ahead". Now it's "Scorpio will blow Pro out of the water" lol.
     
  18. goonergaz

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    I don't know, not me - I said it was aimed at early XBO adopters and I stand by that, this is the console to correct all the wrongs of XBO. Of course it's not only aimed at them, I just see that as the easiest target, then it's anyone who want's the most powerful console experience...but as you said, it's a small window.
     
  19. Shifty Geezer

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    Consumers don't work that way. That's why there's many products across many price ranges and not just low-end and high-end. Those who are not bottom-feeding will compare the value of the two higher end models and make their choice based on numerous parameters.

    There's some strange fanboy thinkings out there! Why would Scorpio affect a PS4 owner's upgrade choice? It's literally nothing to do with them, any more than Apple releasing a new phone or Samsung a new fridge-freezer. If I want a better Pro experience, I buy a 4 Pro, regardless what othe products are out.

    The thing most affecting future upgraders probably is that the longer they leave getting a 4Pro, the nearer they'll be to getting a PS5. As such, post Scorpio release we should expect 4Pro adoption to decrease. Potentially the same from Scorpio too.
     
  20. mpg1

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    Big improvement but they still held on to the idea of symmetrical joysticks...? Dpad should secondary on left side of controllers these days
     
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