Microsoft announces external HD-DVD drive for Xbox 360

[Bigus Dickus]

Here's one more anecdotal piece of evidence:

My dad had a VHS collection in the hundreds when DVD came out. After viewing one movie on my DVD player when the format first launched (my player was $800 at launch, and was a "bargain"), he vowed that he would replace his entire collection with DVD's ASAP. He did, repurchasing all of his collection as soon as each title was released (not all have been yet...). His DVD collection is now near 2500.

This is a man with 3 HDTV's in the house, and HD content over satellite on all of them. When I asked him about his impression of HD broadcast vs. DVD movies, and whether he will replace his DVD collection, his response was "nope... why should I? Maybe when the players are a lot cheaper I'll pick one up and start buying HD movies, but not anytime soon..."

 

[ihamoitc2005]

all-in-one

Theres a good chance the guy who buys the all-in-one never faxes with it or never copies with it.

Even if he does use it for everything, he also probably not using each function bearly as much as someone who bought the stand alone version of it.

My friend I agree that there will be some PS3 owners who do not buy or rent movies but I think you will agree that any PS3 owner who buys or rents movie disc will choose BD version over DVD version if it is available at vendor.

I feel biggest question is distribution and good example is Blockbuster who may not carry BD or HD-DVD movie disc items until many players are sold (unless early deal with studios is made). BD has good chance for early Blockbuster support because of large PS3 sales but HD-DVD group must work very hard for this. Key for HD-DVD is to have player at low price available at Best Buy, Walmart and similar "normal consumer" type vendors.

 

[ihamoitc2005]

older

Here's one more anecdotal piece of evidence:

My dad had a VHS collection in the hundreds when DVD came out. After viewing one movie on my DVD player when the format first launched (my player was $800 at launch, and was a "bargain"), he vowed that he would replace his entire collection with DVD's ASAP. He did, repurchasing all of his collection as soon as each title was released (not all have been yet...). His DVD collection is now near 2500.

This is a man with 3 HDTV's in the house, and HD content over satellite on all of them. When I asked him about his impression of HD broadcast vs. DVD movies, and whether he will replace his DVD collection, his response was "nope... why should I? Maybe when the players are a lot cheaper I'll pick one up and start buying HD movies, but not anytime soon..."

Maybe he is older and wiser and also cost of replacing "hundreds" of vhs is less than 2500 DVDs. My own taste is to not buy movies but rent from Blockbuster but many like convenience of having movie at the house. Maybe I am a "cheapskate" no?

 

[mrdarko]

Maybe he is older and wiser and also cost of replacing "hundreds" of vhs is less than 2500 DVDs. My own taste is to not buy movies but rent from Blockbuster but many like convenience of having movie at the house. Maybe I am a "cheapskate" no?

he wouldn't have to replace his 2500 dvds because they will work fine with the new players.

not only that,but also up-convert them to hd as well.

 

[Bigus Dickus]

I figured that he'd pick up a new player and buy new released in HD format. But paraphrasing his words, the new players are way too expensive for single disc, and he'll wait a few years until 300disc changers are available at reasonable prices and pick up a few of those.

 

[ihamoitc2005]

compatible

he wouldn't have to replace his 2500 dvds because they will work fine with the new players.

not only that,but also up-convert them to hd as well.

Yes you are right so if he replaced VHS tapes not for image quality but for other reason then maybe he has only little space in home theater cabinet and does not have room for having both VHS player and DVD player.

Also 480P upscale to HD monitor resolution is not so great quality if you see next to true High Definition remaster. Diffrenence is very large on HD monitor.

 

[AlphaWolf]

My friend I agree that there will be some PS3 owners who do not buy or rent movies but I think you will agree that any PS3 owner who buys or rents movie disc will choose BD version over DVD version if it is available at vendor.

I feel biggest question is distribution and good example is Blockbuster who may not carry BD or HD-DVD movie disc items until many players are sold (unless early deal with studios is made). BD has good chance for early Blockbuster support because of large PS3 sales but HD-DVD group must work very hard for this. Key for HD-DVD is to have player at low price available at Best Buy, Walmart and similar "normal consumer" type vendors.

That assumes the BD version is the same price as the DVD version.

 

[ihamoitc2005]

Assumption

That assumes the BD version is the same price as the DVD version.

I expect BD version to cost more but it is more desirable product. Even many people with no HDTV will want to rent or buy BD version.

 

[mrdarko]

Yes you are right so if he replaced VHS tapes not for image quality but for other reason then maybe he has only little space in home theater cabinet and does not have room for having both VHS player and DVD player

i'll let bigus answer that one!

Also 480P upscale to HD monitor resolution is not so great quality if you see next to true High Definition remaster. Diffrenence is very large on HD monitor.

i'm sure you're right.i just mentioned it because it's a nice bonus to some.

 

[AlphaWolf]

I expect BD version to cost more but it is more desirable product. Even many people with no HDTV will want to rent or buy BD version.

I very much doubt this.

 

[ihamoitc2005]

Desire

I very much doubt this.

Picture quality can be better (because of downscale artifacts will be more hidden) and also content can be much much more. Cost of making extra content is very small for large studios with large distribution and studios have said DVD space is not enough for content available and so one can only make guess for how much and what kind of interactive content can be had with new players. I feel this is opportunity to make extra content very interesting. Also, "cutting-edge" image of next-gen format will be motivation.

 

[Bigus Dickus]

Yes you are right so if he replaced VHS tapes not for image quality but for other reason then maybe he has only little space in home theater cabinet and does not have room for having both VHS player and DVD player.

He has 8 300disc changers in the cabinet along with other electronics (satellite, pre/pro, amplifiers, VHS, etc.), so it definitely wasn't a "space in the cabinet" concern. As for case storage, he keeps maybe the first thousand in the cabinets in the theater room, the rest in an adjoining room. Remember, he only had several hundred VHS tapes so storage space for those wasn't a concern either (he still keeps all of those, incidentally, as quite a few still aren't released on DVD... and judging by the quality of most of those (theatrical quality that is), I doubt they ever will be!).

The funny thing is that he keeps all the jackets/cases in alphabetical order (no t sure why... they're empty... maybe to help guests figure out what movies he has to watch one?). So after he buys maybe 50-100 movies he spends a day shifting movies from shelf to shelf making room for the new ones. He tries to leave some space for new purchases, but still... it's a mess and pretty funny to see in progress.

My own collection is around 200 movies on DVD. I'd happily purchase an HD player this time if/when the prices are reasonable... if there were only one format. With two, or until universal players are available, I'll wait. I won't be getting the 360 accessory, that's for sure, so my first drive might be in the PS3 if I get one before standalone player prices drop significantly.

Also 480P upscale to HD monitor resolution is not so great quality if you see next to true High Definition remaster. Diffrenence is very large on HD monitor.

In my dad's case, at least, his primary reason for not being excited about HD movies is that he doesn't see that big of a leap in looks. With progressive scan and good pulldown and scaling 480p displayed on 720p looks pretty darned good, to him at least. His experience with HD has been over sattelite, so maybe the compression used has prevented him from being wowed, but with that delivery medium he doesn't see enough difference to justify any purchase at this point. He's not even considering a standalone single disc player to play new purchases until changers come out. Shrug.

As for 1080p, well, I think that offers a bigger jump in display quality, but (1) none of his TV's support it (how many have one that does?) and he's in no mood to replace all of his HDTV's, and (2) what content will be offered in 1080p anytime soon?

 

[ihamoitc2005]

Change

As for 1080p, well, I think that offers a bigger jump in display quality, but (1) none of his TV's support it (how many have one that does?) and he's in no mood to replace all of his HDTV's, and (2) what content will be offered in 1080p anytime soon?

Also HD hype is still not full-scale. Sony "hype-machine" will be "full-blast" in May-July and press hype in news shows and financial news will be more when new players and movies are available in stores. I agree 1080P has biggest jump and 480p looks maybe ok on 720P monitor but bad on 1080P monitor but I think also 1080P can become standard like 480P for broadcast and distribution and also for TV. Cost is always coming down very fast but full change will not happen "over night".

 

[Laa-Yosh]

What's all the 480p talk anyway? I thought the native resolution for DVD is 720*576, with a non-square pixel aspect ratio.
Obviously some of the lines are empty (black) with 2.35:1 aspect ratio movies... but on a HDTV you would get better quality than 480p even without any scaling on the DVD player.

 

[ihamoitc2005]

720*576

That is ~ same number of pixels as widescreen 480P so has same bit-rate which is limiting factor. With fixed bit-rate you can distribute pixels for less vertical and more horizontal resolution for wide-screen.

 

[Bigus Dickus]

What's all the 480p anyway? I thought the native resolution for DVD is 720*576, with a non-square pixel aspect ratio. Obviously some of the lines are empty (black) with 2.35:1 aspect ratio movies... but on a HDTV you would get better quality than 480p even without any scaling on the DVD player.

NTSC only supports 480 lines of resolution (interlaced at that, IIRC). DVD format is 720 x 480, unless you include the various 720p and 1080p computer only DVD formats that are rarely found.

edit - that's for NTSC. PAL I think does use 720 x 576... I'd have to look that one up.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Well, I live in Europe and I have a PAL player and region 2 discs...

Edit: the TV certainly thinks that it gets a 720*576 signal from my Denon player.

 

[Bigus Dickus]

PAL vs. NTSC

 

[seismologist]

ERP's story is very similar to one I had that I related here before. My father has a hi-def set and was watching football from a standard def feed, stretched, and he turned to me and said, "Isn't that picture great! That's hi-def!" (or something to that effect).

Stores will be forced to have side by side displays just to convince people that the DVDs they play at home on their HD sets don't look as great as the consumer actually thinks it does.
.Sis

My dad says the exact same thing. His HDTV is only 30" so it's not really noticeable. On a 50" set like mine poor SD quality becomes alot more noticeable.

As far as retail sales. I have a feeling that retail stores will start using Blu Ray to sell these new 1080p TVs. Once people get home and discover that their DVD collection looks like crap upscaled to 1080p they will be forced to upgrade to an HD movie player. Sort of like what's happening now when people bring home their 50" HDTV and wonder why SD cable looks nothing like what they saw running in the display room.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Picture quality can be better (because of downscale artifacts will be more hidden) and also content can be much much more. Cost of making extra content is very small for large studios with large distribution and studios have said DVD space is not enough for content available and so one can only make guess for how much and what kind of interactive content can be had with new players. I feel this is opportunity to make extra content very interesting. Also, "cutting-edge" image of next-gen format will be motivation.

Nothing in there to make most people pay a premium for a movie. You can already see this with DVDs and the collectors editions. There are some people that want that extra content, but I suspect that most people just want the movie judging from the number of collectors editions vs standard editions that they sell in the stores.