Microsoft announces external HD-DVD drive for Xbox 360

[scooby_dooby]

Post #352 of this thread.

ahh, basically MC = XP, they are identical, you wouldn't even know you're running a different version except for the green button. i haven't had any problem running games like cod2, b&w 2, civ4 etc

Phil- I never said this hd-dvd drive in a console will make any huge difference in the hd format war, what I said is it's a smart move because it will help 360 sales, and at the same time allow them to get their core console to $150 very quickly increasing their marketshare.

 

[Phil]

Phil- I never said this hd-dvd drive in a console will make any huge difference in the hd format war, what I said is it's a smart move because it will help 360 sales, and at the same time allow them to get their core console to $150 very quickly increasing their marketshare.

I might have missed it, but I can't exactly remember you explaining how this add-on (which will probably come in expensive and won't be adapted by a large part of the market) will make them bring down the core console any quicker beyond simply incurring higher losses on themselves.

That's exactly the thing you're missing: While Sony can benefit directly from Blu-Ray being successful, they can use that potential to make sure that their break-even point in reached, either earlier or to their advantage by bringing down the PS3 price to make it even more competitive and ensure its success that again will be to their advantage since they'll be making money on licencing/producing BRs and bringing down costs of the format through rising demand and production.

More add-ons [in Xbox360s case] doesn't mean a cheaper core-unit. Those add-ons need to be successful first, which isn't an all too sure thing since it's something that is entirely optional and won't benefit the consumer in anyway other than for HD-DVD movie playback unlike i.e. a memorycard or a harddrive where one of the two is an indirect requirement in order to play the console as it's been designed to do.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Let me put it simpler then.

They can enjoy all the marketing/sales benefits of supporting HD-movie playback WITHOUT increasing the price of their core unit.

BR is a selling feature that PS3 had over 360, with this external drive they are basically on equal footing, PS3 loses a large marketing advantage(or rather MS gains one). They've gotten the bullet point. At the same time, they have a cheap dvd-base core unit that will be easy to cost reduce.

Sony cannot lose unlimited amounts of money subsidizing blu-ray drives, this is a gamble after all, if BR fails the drive will remain expensive for a long time so they can only bet so much.

 

[Phil]

Let me put it simpler then.

So, in other words, you are retracting your claim that this hd-dvd add-on will "allow them to get their core console to $150"?

They can enjoy all the marketing/sales benefits of supporting HD-movie playback WITHOUT increasing the price of their core unit.

BR is a selling feature that PS3 had over 360, with this external drive they are basically on equal footing, PS3 loses a large marketing advantage(or rather MS gains one). They've gotten the bullet point. At the same time, they have a cheap dvd-base core unit that will be easy to cost reduce.

So you doubt the consumer will notice that if he wants a hd-dvd, he'll be looking at the core-unit + memorycard / harddrive extension + hd-dvd-add-on for a total price of $$$?

I still fail to see how this is any larger advantage other than pledging their support to a medium that has been taking blow after blow either for hd-dvd as a format nor to any advantage over PS3. The core unit doesn't come with a hd-dvd unit, plain and simple. Consumers will still be looking at the above core sku + memorycard / hdd + hd-dvd-add-on vs. a most likely cheaper PS3 + memorystick / cf-card.

If anything, I could see a future Xbox360 in NA with hd-dvd-add-on being priced at the same price as a PS3 excluding any saving-medium and then things could still backfire for Microsoft is Blu-Ray ends up being the winning-format.

The only advantage and good thing about this news that I see, is that it gives a bit of hope to the hd-dvd camp (though why exactly is beyond me), but given the chances and the probability of a Blu-Ray win, I don't see what difference it will make, if any. The content is still in Blu-Ray's favour and that will dictate which format will be the more attractive one for consumers.

Sony cannot lose unlimited amounts of money subsidizing blu-ray drives, this is a gamble after all, if BR fails the drive will remain expensive for a long time so they can only bet so much.

That isn't the argument. No company has unlimited amounts of money and no one is saying it isn't a gamble. What I'm saying is, it is a gamble that they are willing to take, as obvious by what's on the line for them and the potential benefits to them directly [SCE], them as a whole [Sony] and their products [Blu-Ray stand-alone players, PS3, Sony Pictures etc].

 

[Magnum PI]

, I wonder if they'll add a Tivo type add-on (included with a bigger harddrive)?

Surely not, for that they want you to use a PC with their OS.

 

[mckmas8808]

IMHO, there is only one question to decide the format war - which will be the first to offer a player for under $150 in Media Markt (here in Central Europe) / Best Buy (or whatever you have in the US). It will then gain all the support from the movie studios and CE manufacturers...

So does software sales not count any more?

 

[Qroach]

U need to sell the hardware first.

 

[mckmas8808]

U need to sell the hardware first.

PS3. 100 million +.

 

[Sis]

PS3. 100 million +.

You're back to the "inevitable" argument.

Laa-Yosh's point is simple and is seen in many different consumer electronic devices. DVD players's exhibited this behavior, consoles certainly exhibit this behavior. $150 is a magical price point at which the device goes, or has the potential to go, mainstream. If HD-DVD players get there first, before the PS3 or BD players, then HD-DVD has a better chance at going mainstream sooner than BD.

.Sis

 

[Phil]

Laa-Yosh's point is simple and is seen in many different consumer electronic devices. DVD players's exhibited this behavior, consoles certainly exhibit this behavior. $150 is a magical price point at which the device goes, or has the potential to go, mainstream. If HD-DVD players get there first, before the PS3 or BD players, then HD-DVD has a better chance at going mainstream sooner than BD.

You may want to point us to the first dvd-players that launched at $150 because I certainly can't remember any back in the day when dvd came out. While this makes perfectly sense to me, maybe you can help us fill in the void that helps brings down the prices of such products... can't quite put the finger on it.... oh wait... it could be.. no it can't be.... could it be content & support?

You didn't see the PlayStation, Dreamcast, GameCube, Xbox, Xbox360 launching at the magic price point of $199 either do you?

 

[London Geezer]

PS3. 100 million +.

Who said? Not saying it's not gonna happen, but at present time making such assumptions really is out of place.
It will definately sell a lot, but let's keep the numbers in our heads or you'll keep being seen as a Sony fangirl who thinks that anything Sony does turns to gold.

 

[Sis]

You may want to point us to the first dvd-players that launched at $150 because I certainly can't remember any back in the day when dvd came out. While this makes perfectly sense to me, maybe you can help us fill in the void that helps brings down the prices of such products... can't quite put the finger on it.... oh wait... it could be.. no it can't be.... could it be content & support?

You didn't see the PlayStation, Dreamcast, GameCube, Xbox, Xbox360 launching at the magic price point of $199 either do you?

Read my post again.

.Sis

 

[cthellis42]

You may want to point us to the first dvd-players that launched at $150 because I certainly can't remember any back in the day when dvd came out.

They don't mean "launch at," they mean "get to."

This particular instance, though, will be more complicated that DVD sales were (or VCR sales were when there still was VHS/Beta), however, as neither of those technologies were dependant on another. HD DVD is dependant on HDTV's.

HD DVD's sell directly to a much smaller market, and one that is not yet ready to buy ONLY that technology. HDTV's aren't cheap enough and good enough yet either, and cable/satellite companies are not showing content that way to be an absolute driving force. THAT is still going to go through a few more years of pace-setting, and HD DVD adoption will lag well behind that even if their price were to fall notably and quickly (which it won't).

In this case, what is not so imporant as "who can reach a certain price point first" is "who is more visable and has the bigger name by the time people WANT to buy in." VCRs and DVD players and PVRs and almost every tech previously has sold to an absolute, pre-established, HUGE market that sat waiting for the price of entry to drop at every step. HD DVDs, however, are going to be waiting for another market to become huge and "absolute" first... The mass market will be waiting for price drops elsewhere FIRST, and there will still be a time after they choose to enter the HDTV world that they won't be able to afford--or choose to afford--to enter that of HD movie playing. Most, I'd guess, will be upping their cable/satellite subscription plans first.

So in this case, as much as Blu-Ray's inclusion in the PS3 does not make it "inevitable," I think it will have an impact on the market's consciousness even greater than unit sales, which--unless they are aiming for a stupidly-high price point--should be extremely impressive. ...and much better than sales from any of the "adoption phase" technologies we've seen up until now.

If "Blu-Ray" becomes synonymous with "Playstation" which remains at its' current level of societal awareness... It would take a MASSIVE push from HD-DVD above and beyond what Blu-Ray possesses otherwise (which I don't see) to counteract that kind of assistance. Or a MASSIVE price disparity (which we will see) to make the market notice there is--or should be--another option.

MS could indeed use its' current visability to help HD-DVD on this right, but the impact of an add-on like that is questionably unless they're subsidizing it to a huge extent and releasing the drive for $100 or so. Which I don't see happening.

 

[Hardknock]

I agree with cthellis42. Great post. Blu-Ray isn't going anywhere folks (PS3 and the legion of Sony fans are making sure of that). All HD-DVD can hope to do is split the market. Samsung and other platform agnostic companies will then probably produce players that can play both formats. (Similar to DVD-/+ R) I think Toshiba knows this will happen, they just want a piece of the pie.

 

[cthellis42]

Indeed. If there is enough support for both sides, what I mostly expect to see are talented manufacturers making all-format players and both sides start looking again at unifying the format, as a protracted fight may well just screw up the media adoption for BOTH of them. But even early adopters would still have their playing options, I figure.

 

[ihamoitc2005]

Samsung

I agree with cthellis42. Great post. Blu-Ray isn't going anywhere folks (PS3 and the legion of Sony fans are making sure of that). All HD-DVD can hope to do is split the market. Samsung and other platform agnostic companies will then probably produce players that can play both formats. (Similar to DVD-/+ R) I think Toshiba knows this will happen, they just want a piece of the pie.

theinquirer.net makes many mistakes so this may be false but they say Samsung says this:

http://theinquirer.net/?article=28769

"It says something when they've already dropped the price on an unreleased product,"

"It's up Holywood to help straighten the situation out now."

 

[mckmas8808]

Who said? Not saying it's not gonna happen, but at present time making such assumptions really is out of place.
It will definately sell a lot, but let's keep the numbers in our heads or you'll keep being seen as a Sony fangirl who thinks that anything Sony does turns to gold.

If people think that then screw them. I've talked bad about how Sony failed with MP3, Betamax, and with their online capabilites on the PS2. It's those other fans that only want to view certain post that I type and point them out.

And why is it when I said that the Xbox had the best graphics, online support, FPS's, and great built-in HDD nobody calls me a MS fan boy?

 

[Ginko]

"It says something when they've already dropped the price on an unreleased product,"

Is that fact or spin? Did they really drop the price or is it honestly cheaper to produce?

 

[cthellis42]

And why is it when I said that the Xbox had the best graphics, online support, FPS's, and great built-in HDD nobody calls me a MS fan boy?

Quiet down, you alternatively-fluctuating fan person!

 

[mckmas8808]

I agree with cthellis42. Great post. Blu-Ray isn't going anywhere folks (PS3 and the legion of Sony fans are making sure of that). All HD-DVD can hope to do is split the market. Samsung and other platform agnostic companies will then probably produce players that can play both formats. (Similar to DVD-/+ R) I think Toshiba knows this will happen, they just want a piece of the pie.

Glad to see you seeing the truth now.

No serious you are right. Toshiba is already making a player that can play Blu-ray disc, so I guess they already want a piece of the pie.