Microsoft announces external HD-DVD drive for Xbox 360

[scooby_dooby]

still, what are the real numbers? consoles sold by Nov 2001?

 

[fulcizombie]

I think HD-DVD pricing is a sure sign of it's failure. Having to compete by making very little profit in the early stages is an of desperation on Toshiba's/NECs' part.

The Blu-ray companies feel no need to give away their products and are going to charge a premium for early adopters. They know they are operating from a position of strength. The initial buyers of these Blu-ray players are the same people who don't mind spending thousands of dollars on a 1080p TV set, so $1800 is not expensive at all to these people.

My God,so now decent affordable prices are seen as a "sign of failure"????
Maybe it's because HD-DVD as a format is cheaper to manfacture,wasn't this supposed to be one of HD-DVD's advantages anyway???

I love how some people can manipulate everything so that it fits their agenda.Here's a bit of info:the samsung HDTVs are some of the cheapest on the market and Samsung is making a killing because of that while other companies with their "premium" products are watching their market share and profits diminish....

 

[scooby_dooby]

Ya, god forbid HD-DVD use it's one true advantage to help win it's battle.

Their main advantage has always been price, why would anyone expect they would not use that advantage in the upcoming pricing-war?

 

[Bobbler]

Ya, god forbid HD-DVD use it's one true advantage to help win it's battle.

Their main advantage has always been price, why would anyone expect they would not use that advantage in the upcoming pricing-war?

Their advantage was pricing of discs, which are cheaper to manufacture because they can just modify old plants and get some discs that way instead of getting new production lines (in the end I have a feeling both HD-DVD and BR disc production plants will be using new production lines if they want the greatest efficiency anyways). I don't recall them ever making any mention on the pricing of drives (I mentioned this in a previous post, even).

 

["Nerve-Damage"]

Then why did you use it as "proof" of your point?

It explains nothing.

As explained earlier, one already translated the japanese article.

Do a search.

Grow-up

What Sony (Ken) stated and what was presented was in dispute, not the accuracy of what’s to come.

Do I believe the PS3 is capable of running a game at 120fps? Well that depends on the nature of the game and assets being used (and a future TV capable of handling that framerate). Anything is possible……..

 

[drpepper]

Grow-up

What Sony (Ken) stated and what was presented was in dispute, not the accuracy of what’s to come.

Do I believe the PS3 is capable of running a game at 120fps? Well that depends on the nature of the game and assets being used (and a future TV capable of handling that framerate). Anything is possible……..

Maybe you should learn to grow up. What was in dispute was if the comments was refering to game fram rates or to film. I believe it was the latter that Sony was refering to.

 

["Nerve-Damage"]

Maybe you should learn to grow up. What was in dispute was if the comments was refering to game fram rates or to film. I believe it was the latter that Sony was refering to.

Pointless to argue with you....

Time to pop in my 60fps and 90fps DVD now!!

 

[patsu]

Software sales is whats important. The reason why these devices cost so much early on is becuase theres no economies of scale, not becuase they want to make lots of money on players that a very small percentage of the market can afford.

The economy of scale problem applies more to HD-DVD makers since it is only an add-on to XBox 360 at this point. Regardless of what MS wants to say, BR and HD-DVD will both work well on Windows, or MS will get into regulation trouble.

If you're responsible for P&L for a manufacturer, what would you do ?

* Camp A. Subsized product in play to develope market. You'll never be able to match it's retail price ("free !") although you may be able to match Sony's *cost*. Camp A has slightly majority content.

* Camp B. Windows giving out rebates. Association is giving out know-how to chinese manufacturers. You'll never be able to match their prices *and* costs.

Your options are:
(1) Become OEM supplier to Sony as long as you can beat Sony's cost and share PS3's success
(2) Standalone players. Just slap your label on low cost HD-DVD OEMs and forget about innovating
(3) Standalone players. Aim for mid-tier and ramp up HD-DVD and BluRay production in line with Windows Vista launch
(4) Become OEM supplier to XBox360's HD-DVD drive
(5) Standalone players. Focus on mid to high-ends for both/either Blu-Ray and HD-DVD. Try to carve out a *non-price sensitive* niche for myself

They are not mutually exclusive. We are just seeing companies playing out their cards. We cannot simply use the retail price of 1 product to declare anything really.

 

[scooby_dooby]

HD-DVD will need a second laser if it wants to read the red laser pits too. 405nm blue/violet laser isn't going to do much good on a DVD. The disc architecture is similar, this is true -- HD-DVD is essentially just DVD with smaller pits (blue/violet laser instead of the red laser). It's marketing PR spin.

And a laser used for reading DVDs is going to be dirt cheap at this point, we're talking 2-3 dollars (probably much less).

Well, this Amir guy at AVS forums knows what he's talking about right?

"Originally Posted by DeadmeatGA
The cheapest price quoted is $450 for OPU81 from Phillips. Drives incorporating OPU81 will sell for $650. Sony will be happy to sell its Blu-Ray OPU for $1,000.

No public figure for HD-DVD OPU price is available. However, HD-DVD OPU is just a slightly modified DVD OPU to include a blue-laser diode. Since the DVD OPUs sell for $3.50, the cost of an HD-DVD OPU is $3.50 + price of blue-laser diode($50) + modifications needed. The resulting OPU price is less than $100."

"Originally Posted by amirm
Deadmeat is far more correct on his numbers than you give him credit. Yes, he may be somewhat on the high side but if you go and push for real quote right now, you get numbers like he is stating. Again, if you or Rio have such numbers, let’s see it."

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=411600&page=556&pp=30&highlight=WM9+codec+at+hi+bitrare

p.s. OPU? Is that the Optical Processing Unit??

 

[expletive]

The economy of scale problem applies more to HD-DVD makers since it is only an add-on to XBox 360 at this point. Regardless of what MS wants to say, BR and HD-DVD will both work well on Windows, or MS will get into regulation trouble.

If you're responsible for P&L for a manufacturer, what would you do ?

* Camp A. Subsized product in play to develope market. You'll never be able to match it's retail price ("free !") although you may be able to match Sony's *cost*. Camp A has slightly majority content.

* Camp B. Windows giving out rebates. Association is giving out know-how to chinese manufacturers. You'll never be able to match their prices *and* costs.

Your options are:
(1) Become OEM supplier to Sony as long as you can beat Sony's cost and share PS3's success
(2) Just slap your label on low cost HD-DVD OEMs and forget about innovating
(3) Aim for mid-tier and ramp up HD-DVD and BluRay production in line with Windows Vista launch
(4) Become OEM supplier to XBox360's HD-DVD drive
(5) Standalone players. Focus on mid to high-ends for both/either Blu-Ray and HD-DVD. Try to carve out a *non-price sensitive* niche for myself

They are not mutually exclusive. We are just seeing companies playing out their cards. We cannot simply use the retail price of 1 product to declare anything really.

Umm no, economies of scale applies to all CE manufacturers, all the time.

I love how the BR camp just likes to slip in that BR will work on Vista. I jsut got through watching a MCE demo from the MS keynote all the optical stuff was on HD-DVD (and they took time to say it), theyre offering incentives for manufacturers to bundle HD-DVD, clearly Vista will be built around HD-DVD not BR. What are these imaginary regulations that MS MUST provide equal support for BR in their OS?

 

[Edge]

A free HD-DVD player is still too expensive, cause who wants to carry the dead format home? HD-DVD pricing is meaningless.

If pricing was the standard of success, the Blu-ray manufacturers can adjust to that in a heartbeat, but HD-DVD cannot overcome it's HUGE minority position among the hardware manufacturers, cannot overcome it's minority position on studio support, and cannot overcome it's technological disadvantage to Blu-ray in the same time frame it takes Blu-ray manufacturers to respond to market demands based on price.

Blu-ray success is a foregone conclusion, just as the PS3 success is. Just accept it guys, and stop having this false hope for Sony's downfall. It's just a waste of time on your part.

 

[Carl B]

I don't know, does he know what he's talking about? I've heard his name before but don't remember the consensus on him.

Deadmeat I can personally confirm as a troll - but that doesn't mean he's wrong in his specs.

The HD-DVD BOM there seems viable enough to me, but where's the info indicating a many-times higher BOM for Sony? I mean I'm not believing it or knocking it out-of-hand anyway, but I'm certainly happy to have as much info as possible.

 

[Sis]

A free HD-DVD player is still too expensive, cause who wants to carry the dead format home? HD-DVD pricing is meaningless.

If pricing was the standard of success, the Blu-ray manufacturers can adjust to that in a heartbeat, but HD-DVD cannot overcome it's HUGE minority position among the hardware manufacturers, cannot overcome it's minority position on studio support, and cannot overcome it's technological disadvantage to Blu-ray in the same time frame it takes Blu-ray manufacturers to respond to market demands based on price.

Your position is so extreme, and so polarized, that I don't understand why you even bother to post it. It surely doesn't seem to be in interest of debate.

Perhaps you are trying to enlighten the masses?

.Sis

 

[mckmas8808]

Ya, god forbid HD-DVD use it's one true advantage to help win it's battle.

Their main advantage has always been price, why would anyone expect they would not use that advantage in the upcoming pricing-war?

To bad Sony will undercut them by pricing the PS3 lower than the cheapest HD-DVD player.

 

[Carl B]

I love how the BR camp just likes to slip in that BR will work on Vista. I jsut got through watching a MCE demo from the MS keynote all the optical stuff was on HD-DVD (and they took time to say it), theyre offering incentives for manufacturers to bundle HD-DVD, clearly Vista will be built around HD-DVD not BR. What are these imaginary regulations that MS MUST provide equal support for BR in their OS?

I mean they are helping HD-DVD, but they're not going to purposefully make it difficult for Blu-ray to run on Windows - you'll just need an external driver. I mean beyond just the kick to the balls for Dell and other OEM Windows/Bluray supporters that would be, it just seems outlandish that Vista wouldn't support playback of the *dominant* HD format if they want to feature prominent in the digital living room.

 

[Sis]

theyre offering incentives for manufacturers to bundle HD-DVD

Did the MS reps say this in their presentation or is this based on the rumor? Just trying to get confirmation on it.

.Sis

 

[scooby_dooby]

To bad Sony will undercut them by pricing the PS3 lower than the cheapest HD-DVD player.

Right....because HD-DVD player prices will not drop at all from May to November....

Get a clue buddy. By the time PS3 launches in US, there will be HD-DVD standalone players that are cheaper than PS3.

 

[avaya]

Did the MS reps say this in their presentation or is this based on the rumor? Just trying to get confirmation on it.

.Sis

Amir wouldn't confirm it either.

 

[Sis]

I mean they are helping HD-DVD, but they're not going to purposefully make it difficult for Blu-ray to run on Windows - you'll just need an external driver. I mean beyond just the kick to the balls for Dell and other OEM Windows/Bluray supporters that would be, it just seems outlandish that Vista wouldn't support playback of the dominant HD format if they want the digital living room.

It seems, prima facie, that Blu-ray will work in Windows more than likely just as easily as any other piece of hardware available.

.Sis

 

[drpepper]

Umm no, economies of scale applies to all CE manufacturers, all the time.

I love how the BR camp just likes to slip in that BR will work on Vista. I jsut got through watching a MCE demo from the MS keynote all the optical stuff was on HD-DVD (and they took time to say it), theyre offering incentives for manufacturers to bundle HD-DVD, clearly Vista will be built around HD-DVD not BR. What are these imaginary regulations that MS MUST provide equal support for BR in their OS?

I think the Java fiasco is more than enough precedent to prevent MS from preventing the use of BR. Quicktime also comes into mind, as well as the Netscape incident. Should I go on?

If MS doesn't offer a solution I'm sure Dell, Sony and HP will offer their own drivers and workarounds. There's really nothing MS can do to prevent the use of BR on Vista.

Apple will have no problems supporting both. Though I won't be surprised if they "officially" only support Blu-Ray by including it in their powermac lines.

Despite Apple being on the BDA apple does support HD-DVD in their software line.