MGS4 realtime demonstration by Kojima

[Titanio]

Personally, I think looking at high quality screen captures isn't doing the game any justice. If you've watched the high resolution video from Ruliweb (not direct-feed though), the trailer still doesn't fail to impress - in fact, it just got a whole lot more exciting and impressive IMO. In the high quality movie, the details that are lost in the low-res movies are all over the place. The wind, the smoke, papers and trash flying around, the shadowing, even the sweat on Snake's cheeks stand out. The lighting is also very impressive and really stands out much better in the high resolution videos - it's subtle, but it's there and it's very realistic/authentic. I think looking at screens only make you fixate on the little flaws - which are there - but lets not kid ourselves: flaws like some unnice textures can be found in just about every game if you look for them. It's the big picture that counts and on that level, it's quite phenomenal what Kojima and his team have put together here - and can only really appreciate those details in the high-res version.

Even that vid loses detail in fast motion, unfortunately. You can pick that up better in the G4 captures I linked to in the other thread (but those ones are incomplete, and with messed up colouring etc.)

No one seems to have a perfect vid yet, each one is compromised in some fashion. Hopefully we'll get direct feed tomorrow as rumoured. Native resolution would be great

 

[Phil]

Yep I know, downloaded the G4 one as well (thanks for linking btw)... I just refered to the Ruliweb one because the video itself seems less compressed and artefacted while also being at a higher resolution.

Can't wait for a direct-feed though. When does the exclusivity period of G4 end? Sunday evening Japanese time?

 

[overclocked]

Why not? They manipulate with 3d frame (as they did with UT3 at e3). Did they change the whole video at will (camera point, lights), am I missing something? Scans of that real time presentation were already published in japanese magazine 3 days before presentation.

You mentioned CG in your post, so i dont se the point in what you are asking.
Or rather whats the point with the post?

 

[Stillmatic]

Why not? They manipulate with 3d frame (as they did with UT3 at e3). Did they change the whole video at will (camera point, lights), am I missing something? Scans of that real time presentation were already published in japanese magazine 3 days before presentation.

You mentioned CG in your post, so i dont se the point in what you are asking.
Or rather whats the point with the post?

Don't worry, it's already been explained to him, but he refuses to accept it.

http://ccfx.net/nextboxforum/viewtopic.php?t=4148&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=50

 

[Titanio]

Can't wait for a direct-feed though. When does the exclusivity period of G4 end? Sunday evening Japanese time?

Midnight Saturday apparently, but I don't know what timezone, and if sites will be putting it up right on the button.

 

[darkblu]

damn well made human skin. the team behind this demo may not have invented any of the techniques used in it, but they surely know how to use shading to meet their goals. somebody should show that to all those wanna-be-realistic houses, tecmo in particular : )

 

[Lysander]

stillmatic, is that you strife?

 

[Stillmatic]

Jigsaw.

1up has footage of the real time demo.

http://www.1up.com/do/download?cId=3140656

 

[BlueTsunami]

Jigsaw.

1up has footage of the real time demo.

http://www.1up.com/do/download?cId=3140656

That fricken rocked. I liked the part where they showed Otcacon on the little Gear. You can actually feel depth in that scene.

 

[Titanio]

Very nice..

The Mark II model is simply superb.

 

[Platon]

When you consider that some "esteemed" dev's have said (indirectly or otherwise) that programming for the PS3 will be a b*tch, and then Kojima and co. come out with this stunning real time trailer, it says alot about his talent and his ability as a developer.

There is no doubt about Kojima & Co are excellent at what they do, but I would not say that this demo shows they have yet learned how to really program the PS3. To make this demo the only ting they have to target is the GPU in the PS3 and from the cell they mot probably use only the PPE from. When they are going to apply AI, physics and all the other stuff used in gameplay and they will have to start using the SPEs that could be when the difficulties start...

 

[Titanio]

There is no doubt about Kojima & Co are excellent at what they do, but I would not say that this demo shows they have yet learned how to really program the PS3. To make this demo the only ting they have to target is the GPU in the PS3 and from the cell they mot probably use only the PPE from. When they are going to apply AI, physics and all the other stuff used in gameplay and they will have to start using the SPEs that could be when the difficulties start...

If you read Kojima's interviews about what he wants to do with PS3, and you look at the vid, I think it's a good bet they're working with the SPUs. His aims for MGS4 mesh very well indeed with what Cell is aimed at.

(hint: he does not want to build his environment like a movie set. he wants it to be "real", to have "life" - aka he wants simulation and lots of it. assuming things we've seen in the vid like the destruction and the wind and the smoke, the dust, and even things like the cigarette smoke etc. are being simulated - and it looks like that's the case - I would wager there's SPU involvement. If not..well I'd love to see what it'll look like when he does start using them ).

The Cell "jokes" may also be indicative of how he feels about it..I've no doubt it won't be a walk in the park for him - he said PS2 was hard - but he has a track record of getting results. And his team's PS2 experience will serve him well on Cell.

 

[Platon]

If you read Kojima's interviews about what he wants to do with PS3, and you look at the vid, I think it's a good bet they're working with the SPUs. His aims for MGS4 mesh very well indeed with what Cell is aimed at.

(hint: he does not want to build his environment like a movie set. he wants it to be "real", to have "life" - aka he wants simulation and lots of it. assuming things we've seen in the vid like the destruction and the wind and the smoke, the dust, and even things like the cigarette smoke etc. are being simulated - and it looks like that's the case - I would wager there's SPU involvement. If not..well I'd love to see what it'll look like when he does start using them ).

The Cell "jokes" may also be indicative of how he feels about it..I've no doubt it won't be a walk in the park for him - he said PS2 was hard - but he has a track record of getting results. And his team's PS2 experience will serve him well on Cell.

I don't doubt his plans, and I am sure he will meet them or atleast get close to them. It just seems to me reasonable that for this demonstration, since the group I am sure was stressed since time was most likely something they didn't have, that all of the things shown in the demo were scrippted.

I am sure they had more than enough to get this demo working, art, scrippting, modelling animations and stuff without to have to worry on how to make the SPEs simulate real world enviroments and movements and so on. I am sure they are doing lots of reasearch in his group on how to make cell sweat but I doubt that they have been able to harnest its power so fast...

 

[Titanio]

I don't doubt his plans, and I am sure he will meet them or atleast get close to them. It just seems to me reasonable that for this demonstration, since the group I am sure was stressed since time was most likely something they didn't have, that all of the things shown in the demo were scrippted.

I am sure they had more than enough to get this demo working, art, scrippting, modelling animations and stuff without to have to worry on how to make the SPEs simulate real world enviroments and movements and so on. I am sure they are doing lots of reasearch in his group on how to make cell sweat but I doubt that they have been able to harnest its power so fast...

We can never know for sure, but the detail of some of this would take longer to script I think than to just simulate and let it work it out dynamically, which is why I wouldn't be surprised if they had started on the whole simulation angle already. As a small example, the cigarette smoke - to script that, for just that detail, for just this demo, seems...crazy

 

[Lysander]

Jigsaw.

1up has footage of the real time demo.

I`ll just rewrite what I said on TNB:
Moore did similar stuff as mgs team (without shading) on assassin video; so assassin video is real time?
link

 

[Mefisutoferesu]

The link isn't working. Could you recheck the link, please?

 

[mckmas8808]

I think some of you guys missed the direct-feed video on G4. Well I seen it and it was a world of a difference. It taught me to not trust screenshots anymore. I can see that screenshots will not be the end all be all of what graphics can do. It will be the videos. See this generation comparing screenshots isn't a bad idea to compare one game to another.

But next-gen no. It's just not going to be smart. Special effects next-gen just won't show up as good in a picture as it would in motion. So to all the guys that missed the direct-feed video but has seen the shaking handicams, you missed ALOT of detail. I mean alot of it. I swear the game looks about 30% better.

 

[liverkick]

We can never know for sure, but the detail of some of this would take longer to script I think than to just simulate and let it work it out dynamically, which is why I wouldn't be surprised if they had started on the whole simulation angle already. As a small example, the cigarette smoke - to script that, for just that detail, for just this demo, seems...crazy

Right, wouldnt it in effect be "easier" to physically simulate dozens and dozens of pieces of debris and realistic dust and smoke blowing in the wind than actually try and individually script something like that in real time?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

You could precalculate those animations though. Not that I'm saying one way or another.

 

[Lysander]

The link isn't working. Could you recheck the link, please?

it works for me, it is zip file; report back if it is not working
edit: ops, sorry you are right, in past it works and now it is gone; it is ruby video where moore freezes 3d frame and rotates the frame in space, with zooming in, out; perhaps someone knows for alternative link
edit2: correct link