MGS4 realtime demonstration by Kojima

[bRoNx]

When you consider that some "esteemed" dev's have said (indirectly or otherwise) that programming for the PS3 will be a b*tch, and then Kojima and co. come out with this stunning real time trailer, it says alot about his talent and his ability as a developer.

Of course, others before him have discovered and documented these techniques, but you must admit that this guy has that special "X" factor to be able to take all of that, and implement it in a way that works well for his game. I believe he set the bar very early on in the PS2's lifecycle with MGS2 (graphically), and it appears that he's done it again...only now, he's set the bar for all next gen console games - period!

Look at the top Hollywood directors. They didn't invent the camera, special effects, blah blah blah etc., but the way they use it is something else! You don't hear anyone coming along saying "LOTR trilogy is great, but Peter Jackson never discovered this and that"! It's pointless and it stinks of "damage control" and...dare I say it...f@nboyism!

Just let him do what he does best, and that is creating games that millions of gamers appreciate and adore! If you're not one of them, then that's fine. But nevermind who came up what! That's just plain childish - and this thread doesn't need it!

 

[Atsim]

Look at the top Hollywood directors. They didn't invent the camera, special effects, blah blah blah etc., but the way they use it is something else! You don't hear anyone coming along saying "LOTR trilogy is great, but Peter Jackson never discovered this and that"! It's pointless and it stinks of "damage control" and...dare I say it...f@nboyism!

Ok, let me try this again. It looks good. I was impressed. I can't wait to play it.

Saying stuff like "Kojima is a god among men." or how _leech_ linked to a webpage making fun of Gabe of Half-Life fame in a thread about Zooming in and out, bloom effects, and self-shadowing on a render from MGS4 seems kind of... I don't know, lame. It's not that big of a deal. The fact that Snake has a tounge that moves his cig... that's something to make a big deal about. Not something like this that has been done before and is nothing more than changing some numbers.

I mean if Garry (Garry's Mod) can simplify these effects into slider bars, then I don't really see how this could be that much harder for a team of professionals. Don't take that out of context, I mean the video effects, not anything else in MGS4. Everything else is good.

 

[bRoNx]

I mean if Garry (Garry's Mod) can simplify these effects into slider bars, then I don't really see how this could be that much harder for a team of professionals. Don't take that out of context, I mean the video effects, not anything else in MGS4. Everything else is good.

I hear ya! But I think what xbdestroya meant by "Kojima is a god among men" isn't because he can do DOF or any other technique shown in realtime, but because he is brilliant at what he does...and is regarding by many MGS followers (myself included) as a "god"...simply because he is brilliant, and he's consistently delivering games (ok, only a trailer at this stage...but real time no less) beyond people's expectations!
So yeah, he's not the king of video effects, but he's the "god" of console games...IMHO!

 

[dantruon]

The hi resolution trailers is not even out yet and you guy can really see all the details and critique about it. Just wait til the official trailer came out, the trailer that Kojima wants us to see it in it full glory, not some handy cam crap. Until then, i take all judgement as a grain of peppers.

 

[Atsim]

But we have high quality screenshots...

 

[Inane_Dork]

Not really that much of a point. Why do you feel you have to take the sails from under his feet like that.

Because I think it's a disservice to those who have gone before Kojima. He's obviously responding from an emotional nirvana of sorts, and probably isn't putting as much thought into his words as he would normally do (no offense, x-b, I do the same thing).

 

[onanie]

Because I think it's a disservice to those who have gone before Kojima. He's obviously responding from an emotional nirvana of sorts, and probably isn't putting as much thought into his words as he would normally do (no offense, x-b, I do the same thing).

I think you do not understand. Kojima could be a god, not necessarily because he brought new elements into his real time demonstrations, but more so because of the engaging package he was able to create with such "real time graphics tech". It would be a disservice to him to not worship him for the right reasons.

 

[overclocked]

Yea, but that presentation is also like Peter Moore presentation of assassin. They show a prerendered cgi, and then they stop at some frame and they start to manipulate with picture i.e. rotate around x,y,z-axis, zoom in, zoom out...

My god, i will not even go to discuss that. LOL

 

[wrongdoer]

Thanks a lot One my friend. I hope this puts any doubt to rest against MGS4 being realtime or not!

Was there any doubts, at all? Demo is awesome, but look perfectly doable on a powerful DX9 class GPU. Luna has the same level of lighting and shading, no doubt on a smaller scale with only 7800GTX. Newer game engines before MGS4 release should recreate this demo faithfully. This is next gen coming slowly.

 

[onanie]

Was there any doubts, at all? Demo is awesome, but look perfectly doable on a powerful DX9 class GPU. Luna has the same level of lighting and shading, no doubt on a smaller scale with only 7800GTX. Newer game engines before MGS4 release should recreate this demo faithfully. This is next gen coming slowly.

Indeed, the improvement from the Luna demo (if we are to use that example) is quite significant, from a synthetic stage with four creatures and a placid chick, to a movie-like battlefield experience.

 

[Rur0ni]

Just viewed the 8 minute trailer. The opening sequence is just unreal. And real-time? Makes me consider what console should be beside my N5.

 

[Confidence-Man]

Does look awesome, but when you see the direct-feed captures IGN has the film-like quality is gone and it really looks no better than a handful of other awesome looking next-gen games we've already seen.

Gameplay should be sick, though. It looks like it's going to be really non-linear.

 

[Titanio]

Does look awesome, but when you see the direct-feed captures IGN has the film-like quality is gone

Dude, IGN doesn't have movies period, let alone direct-feeds. There are no direct feeds on the web anywhere.

I could say something here..but I won't. I just think it's funny you wanted to talk it down with imaginary videos. I could be very cynical here..

 

[Coglione]

The screenshots that IGN has (http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/714/714044/imgs_1.html) are from the DF no?

 

[Confidence-Man]

Dude, IGN doesn't have movies period, let alone direct-feeds. There are no direct feeds on the web anywhere.

I could say something here..but I won't. I just think it's funny you wanted to talk it down with imaginary videos. I could be very cynical here..

I didn't say they had videos, did I? I said captures. I assumed they were direct-feed given to them by Konami, as they are the best quality pictures there are right now.

http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/714/714044/imgs_1.html

And by all means, don't hold back on my account. The simple truth is that the poor quality video floating around gives it a more CGI-like look than it actually has looking at those pictures.

 

[Titanio]

I didn't say they had videos, did I? I said captures. I assumed they were direct-feed given to them by Konami, as they are the best quality pictures there are right now.

http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/714/714044/imgs_1.html

And by all means, don't hold back on my account. The simple truth is that the poor quality video floating around gives it a more CGI-like look than it actually has looking at those pictures.

Sorry for the misinterpretation, when I think "capture", I think video. But I think the "flim like quality" comes more from how it moves and the detail than the "imagined" image quality of poorer vid captures. The video may hide some flaws, but a lot of the vids I've seen also make a mess of a lot of it more than they help it - pixellated up the wazoo particularly in motion - and hide a lot of detail. The direct-feed will be different, but I think probably mostly good different.

 

[wrongdoer]

But I think the "flim like quality" comes more from how the camera moves

Edited for truth. The small details and poor captures account for a part, but the meat is the trademark Team Kojima camerawork. The bulk of animations and weight distribution are carried over from this gen. Before i get jumped, i am not downplaying the demo, it is the best demostration of next gen power we will soon have at our hands. Is just, who thinks this looks like pre-rendered, needs to get the eyes checked.

 

[Confidence-Man]

I first saw the trailerand I was blown away, and thought it was simply beyond anything we've seen yet and wondered just what magic he was working that others weren't.

Then I saw those pics at IGN, and it kind of looked like, just a game afterall; you see textures for what they are, you see polygons, jaggies, etc...

Not to take anything away from it though, it looks phenomenal.

 

[Lysander]

My god, i will not even go to discuss that. LOL

Why not? They manipulate with 3d frame (as they did with UT3 at e3). Did they change the whole video at will (camera point, lights), am I missing something? Scans of that real time presentation were already published in japanese magazine 3 days before presentation.

 

[Phil]

I first saw the trailerand I was blown away, and thought it was simply beyond anything we've seen yet and wondered just what magic he was working that others weren't.

Then I saw those pics at IGN, and it kind of looked like, just a game afterall; you see textures for what they are, you see polygons, jaggies, etc...

Not to take anything away from it though, it looks phenomenal.

Personally, I think looking at high quality screen captures isn't doing the game any justice. If you've watched the high resolution video from Ruliweb (not direct-feed though), the trailer still doesn't fail to impress - in fact, it just got a whole lot more exciting and impressive IMO. In the high quality movie, the details that are lost in the low-res movies are all over the place. The wind, the smoke, papers and trash flying around, the shadowing, even the sweat on Snake's cheeks stand out. The lighting is also very impressive and really stands out much better in the high resolution videos - it's subtle, but it's there and it's very realistic/authentic. I think looking at screens only make you fixate on the little flaws - which are there - but lets not kid ourselves: flaws like some unnice textures can be found in just about every game if you look for them. It's the big picture that counts and on that level, it's quite phenomenal what Kojima and his team have put together here - and can only really appreciate those details in the high-res version.