*merged/spinoff* for the Neverending Killzone Discussion on Graphics
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L. Scofield
Veteran
The videos? They're good xD Not much ghosting and minimal aliasing.
It's not standard TAA. While it introduces ghosting, everything looks pretty good and clean.
In any case, all I wanted to point out is that MLAA is hardly the best solution ever. It's efficient but it has its drawbacks as pointed out earlier in the thread.
You think MLAA would do better for those subpixel lines?
Low resolution + temporal have without any doubt more drawbacks in comparison with 1280x720 + SPU MLAA.
Lucid_Dreamer
Veteran
That's a silly point, because EVERYTHING has drawbacks. Crytech's TAA has a hell of a lot more drawbacks than Sony's MLAA. That's for sure, as the videos show. Plus, it achieved an IQ that most wouldn't have thought possible on a console this gen.
Denial of this doesn't change a thing.Mostly not, but I didnt say that MLAA dont have problem w sub-pixel aliasing [it does].
Crytek's implementation has problem with sub-pixel aliasing and many close edges too. So what's better? Close high quality AA and efficient distant or only efficient distant?
BTW I asked friend for KZ 3 footage of sub-pixel aliasing, but I'll probably post it in AA thread to not off-topic more.
I think this is a clear example of why pretty much everyone here would prefer MLAA + HD 720p res over TAA+sub HD res. The huge gains of MLAA simple far outweighs its cons.
http://i54.tinypic.com/2hzgnr.jpg
over
http://i52.tinypic.com/mh7ry1.jpg
The texture filtering really is something special in KZ3, 8xaf maybe?
http://i52.tinypic.com/rvxel3.jpg
http://i51.tinypic.com/xp0ec7.jpg
http://i52.tinypic.com/rvxel3.jpg
http://i51.tinypic.com/xp0ec7.jpg
I don't think people are claiming MLAA is the best solution ever. There were comments within the scope of the home consoles today, and some were comparing with temporal AA.
Besides ghosting, it seems that temporal AA can have other blending issues, which limits its application to distant objects in C2 (as conjectured by DF). It doesn't work on static screens. It also doesn't necessarily address shimmering, and subpixel aliasing. May be it's a good complementary solution but I doubt it can replace other AA methods on its own.
L. Scofield
Veteran
You mean worse than 4xMSAA?Plus, it achieved an IQ that most wouldn't have thought possible on a console this gen.
Probably depends on the game and specific implementations. The devs should be able to implement MLAA differently according to their resource availability. When conditions are favorable, I remember it should be comparable to 16xMSAA based on the MLAA paper. GoW3 is probably the best showcase on home consoles so far.
I suppose 4xMSAA quality will vary depending on implementation too.
I suppose 4xMSAA quality will vary depending on implementation too.
There are screenshots where the MLAA breaks down pretty badly, but that seems to be a common problem no matter which AA solution is chosen. I'd like 4x MSAA, but it isn't a very realistic expectation on the consoles, for most types of games. I'd rather see a game push the visuals in other departments. MLAA seems a great compromise on the PS3.
If the devs designed the game around the tech, they can deliver better than 4xMSAA image quality, and minimize the conditions where the math breaks down. MLAA is a great solution that has propagated to ATI's features set. On the PS3, the SPUs are fortunately there to help out; they may be idling otherwise. ^_^ The solution fits PS3's architecture rather well.
Lucid_Dreamer
Veteran
Hey, that second picture isn't full of jaggies. That's Crytech's special bandsaw saw-tooth implementation! Doesn't it improve the IQ?! It definitely doesn't take away from the IQ, right?
Hey, that second picture isn't full of jaggies. That's Crytech's special bandsaw saw-tooth implementation! Doesn't it improve the IQ?! It definitely doesn't take away from the IQ, right?
Don't diss it, some may call it more pleasing to the eyes
corduroygt
Banned
Which console shooters have 720p with 4xMSAA? If there are any, I can guarantee that they'll look far worse than the likes of KZ3, C2 and Halo Reach, due to the massive compromises they'll have to make in other areas. MLAA has much better quality than 4xMSAA on non-thin geometry by the way.
4xMSAA argument is a red herring, and does not change the fact that you are wrong in every possible way by suggesting 1152x720 TAA can compete with 720p SPU MLAA.
It doesn't. The discussion was about whether there were better alternatives than MLAA available for GG, or whether MLAA was the best choice for this game.
I don't see how MLAA can ever deliver better IQ than 4xMSAA. In certain frames it may have less aliasing, but the overall image quality is always worse, especially in motion.
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