It's no where near as annoying as Half Life 2 - it's just a blip. And a rare one.
Killzone 2 pre-release discussion thread
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It's no where near as annoying as Half Life 2 - it's just a blip. And a rare one.
the ignoramus
Regular
If a developer decides to make a first person shooter 30 fps rather than the 60 fps it should be, at the very least the developer should ensure that the framerate is stable. I'm sick and tired of developers prioritizing IQ over responsiveness and playability.
Though the scripting does bug me. When I first played the demo, I grenaded the two chatting Grunts in the warehouse and thought myself clever that I beat them to the punch. Then I tried sneaking past to no avail. Turns out that on arriving at the warehouse, the are so busy chatting and reading their lines from the auto-cue, they won't pay attention to anything. I stood on the galley and waved, and then jumped off and started some fisticuffs with them (midget that Sev is, I could only really hit an uppercut). So there's no sneaking or positioning or celverness like that. Just lots of set-pieces, and then some reasonable AI firefights.
You can try to sneak and position yourself when fighting any Helghasts once they become "aware".
Just have to be careful where you go. The Helghasts moved around constantly. When I sneaked to their locations to surprise them. Sometimes, I found them in front of me as expected; but sometimes, they were behind or beside me.
Besides finding Garza on the second floor during the first wave, I finally saw a Helghast wandered up the second floor (in the terminal hacking wave) to try to get me.
I'd have to disagree that the shooting genre has little room to innovate.
Not to compare games out there, but things from the AI director, equipment drops, setting booby traps, destructible environments, Kill CAM, terrain altering (if done right) can all impact gameplay. Even the ability to make subtle changes to maps ala Forge can add a new dimension to the FPS games. Whether it is gimmicky or not I guess depends on the player.
There is nothing wrong with a game that doesn't innovate, but to say that there little room for anything else to be added is foolish IMO.
Frankly KZ2 looks great, I'm impressed with the AI, physics and the lighting, but it would be a lie to say that I wasn't slightly let down by the graphics. I will wait and see if the controls issue I have encountered from my perspective is limited to the demo.
Not to compare games out there, but things from the AI director, equipment drops, setting booby traps, destructible environments, Kill CAM, terrain altering (if done right) can all impact gameplay. Even the ability to make subtle changes to maps ala Forge can add a new dimension to the FPS games. Whether it is gimmicky or not I guess depends on the player.
There is nothing wrong with a game that doesn't innovate, but to say that there little room for anything else to be added is foolish IMO.
Frankly KZ2 looks great, I'm impressed with the AI, physics and the lighting, but it would be a lie to say that I wasn't slightly let down by the graphics. I will wait and see if the controls issue I have encountered from my perspective is limited to the demo.
You can try to sneak and position yourself when fighting any Helghasts once they become "aware".
Just have to be careful where you go. The Helghasts moved around constantly. When I sneaked to their locations to surprise them. Sometimes, I found them in front of me as expected; but sometimes, they were behind or beside me.
Besides finding Garza on the second floor during the first wave, I finally saw a Helghast wandered up the second floor (in the terminal hacking wave) to try to get me.
I wish that the enemies were not so scripted. At least in the demo, you always knew when and for the most part where you were going to encounter Helghast. The AI kind of makes up for it since they do not always have the same reaction to your action.
This is true of a lot of shooters, but I guess I've been a little spoiled by L4D. I think it would really add a lot to this game. Of course, some parts have to be scripted to drive the story along.
The combats are not scripted.
The enemy set piece may be scripted to create a context, but right after that, it's free play for everyone. e.g., If you throw a grenade early enough, the enemies may not appear in the expected entrance (because they backed off and found an alternate exit).
Would be interesting to see how much the battle will change when the playground is big enough (i.e., when you're not near their spawn points).
The enemy set piece may be scripted to create a context, but right after that, it's free play for everyone. e.g., If you throw a grenade early enough, the enemies may not appear in the expected entrance (because they backed off and found an alternate exit).
Would be interesting to see how much the battle will change when the playground is big enough (i.e., when you're not near their spawn points).
You're right patsu, there are some innovations on the technical level.
From a gameplay level though, I can't agree...yet. I haven't played MP, so my comments are more limited to the SP campaign and was in response to the not much left to innovate post.
KZ2 will be a Good to Great game, that doesn't mean that there aren't flaws that can be improved going forward.
I get what you mean. My point was maybe going into a corridor in a warehouse. The first time you go through, there are 5 Helghast enemies. The next time you go through there could be none or there could be more. That unpredictability can add a lot to a shooter like this.
The AI is great as you mentioned above. It makes it harder for you to exploit the fact that if you throw a grenade there, they may back off. The thing is you still know that you are about to encounter an enemy in that same area.
What would happen if you throw a grenade there, but there wasn't any enemies to back off--wasted grenade. You'd have to think twice about throwing that grenade...it adds a lot of tension and excitement to the campaign as well.
Wow, people seriously waited until seeing frame drops to question GG's comments regarding the correlation 60% max SPU usage and rock solid 30fps framerate?
Anyway, I aggree shooter genre has not been innovating much. It's evolving but slower than it should have been. It especially sucks in case of Killzone 2 since they had a lot of time and resources to rethink the formula. Well I hope it's fun at least, and not a repetitive piece of crap like some other shooters.
If anything we have seen financial success doesn't really like innovation, which is really unfortunate.
Anyway, I aggree shooter genre has not been innovating much. It's evolving but slower than it should have been. It especially sucks in case of Killzone 2 since they had a lot of time and resources to rethink the formula. Well I hope it's fun at least, and not a repetitive piece of crap like some other shooters.
If anything we have seen financial success doesn't really like innovation, which is really unfortunate.
Our experience is limited to the short demo, not even the SP campaign. But I agree there are tons of things that developers can innovate on. Whether the customers like the outcome is a separate question altogether. Even something as small as the turn acceleration may bite.
Same as every game in existence today and tomorrow.
EDIT:
Sure, but in a large enough battlefield. It will not matter whether it's 7 or 8 enemies if they are all smart (Would be a bummer if it's only 1-2). Depending on how gungho you're, you may also try to race against your teammates.
Yes and no. I got shot from behind this morning with that attitude. The Helghast hid in an enclave I hadn't noticed before. This is what makes KZ2 (or great AI) interesting
In a more open area, not the corridor in the warehouse, the Helghast will be able to move more freely. This was what happened above (in the RPG area). I went in expecting to find one Helghast on the ground behind some obstacles, but he'd moved on.
I totally agree.
That's the danger with innovation. The best example I can think if is R2. Some really like the fact that you're limited to 2 weapons, some don't. Personally, I thought it was a step backwards for them.
KZ2 will do fine. I enjoyed the demo and plan on playing it a few more times before the game releases. I've even been invited to join a clan one of my co-workers is in. I'll probably refuse as they're a little to fanatical about their clan.
Sigfried1977
Legend
I really wouldn't call a 2 Weapon limit innovation. More like copying what everybody else has been doing for the last 5 years or so. Same with regenerating health.
As for the input delay in KZ2: it seems to me that the game simply has a much larger than usual dead zone on the analog sticks. You really have to push it quite far for it to register any sort of input.
As for the input delay in KZ2: it seems to me that the game simply has a much larger than usual dead zone on the analog sticks. You really have to push it quite far for it to register any sort of input.
Yeah, I said I thought it was a step back for that game giving the precedence in its prequel. In R2, you NEED certain weapons in certain areas of the game.
For other games, I do think it fits the balance of the game. Your choices have consequences depending on how you play.
There is no one correct set up though. I appreciate having the different set ups for different games.
For other games, I do think it fits the balance of the game. Your choices have consequences depending on how you play.
There is no one correct set up though. I appreciate having the different set ups for different games.
Yup, it's called backing away from their previous innovations. ^_^
The R2 co-op mode would be a spanky new innovation in contrast.
I hope GG talks more about their AI. e.g., Like changing parameters that affect gameplay in various ways.
Just played the original Killzone from start to finish. I then played the Killzone 2 demo... Again, that must be like the 20th time!! And strangely enough I noticed a few similarities. Not just the art direction which is exactly the same just more detailed, but in the feel of the game.
My biggest niggle with the original was the slow reaction time when using weapons, I always thought that was just the PS2 groaning under the strain, but now I think about, it its just an immersion tactic to make you feel the weight.
I think judged on the merits of its advancement over its predecessor, as it should be - its not new IP, it is a million times better.
The whole deal is just so polished. And I get that just from the demo! I can't wait for the full retail experience.
My biggest niggle with the original was the slow reaction time when using weapons, I always thought that was just the PS2 groaning under the strain, but now I think about, it its just an immersion tactic to make you feel the weight.
I think judged on the merits of its advancement over its predecessor, as it should be - its not new IP, it is a million times better.
The whole deal is just so polished. And I get that just from the demo! I can't wait for the full retail experience.
It's the dude on the roof in the warehouse section. If you can get him to fallout onto the walkway you can get the gun. You can shoot head off with it
specwarGP2
Regular
Have you played the demo? Does the retail version you have not exhibit the same issues?
KillZone 2 is AWESOME. Currently one of the if not the best looking game ever. Definitly surprass the 2005 E3 trailer
http://pici.se/pictures/vyFwofwMW.jpg
http://pici.se/pictures/GuelydSCL.jpg
http://pici.se/pictures/ofxujtoiF.jpg
http://pici.se/pictures/FICQiPCuo.jpg
http://pici.se/pictures/KjwevIcNO.jpg
http://pici.se/pictures/dyZXsLKSo.jpg
http://pici.se/pictures/gSLNpalQH.jpg
http://pici.se/pictures/vyFwofwMW.jpg
http://pici.se/pictures/GuelydSCL.jpg
http://pici.se/pictures/ofxujtoiF.jpg
http://pici.se/pictures/FICQiPCuo.jpg
http://pici.se/pictures/KjwevIcNO.jpg
http://pici.se/pictures/dyZXsLKSo.jpg
http://pici.se/pictures/gSLNpalQH.jpg
KillZone 2 is AWESOME. Currently one of the if not the best looking game ever. Definitly surprass the 2005 E3 trailer
http://pici.se/pictures/vyFwofwMW.jpg
http://pici.se/pictures/GuelydSCL.jpg
http://pici.se/pictures/ofxujtoiF.jpg
http://pici.se/pictures/FICQiPCuo.jpg
http://pici.se/pictures/KjwevIcNO.jpg
http://pici.se/pictures/dyZXsLKSo.jpg
http://pici.se/pictures/gSLNpalQH.jpg
Those are all great pics
It doesn't surpass the cgi which would be impossible but does look better in lots of parts.
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