Killzone 2 pre-release discussion thread

[Gerry]

The discrediting method of ignoring what's written by someone with an opinion because it's favorable. Great.

Nothing to do with whether it's favourable or not. There's plenty of entirely favourable, enthusiastic, well-written articles out there about Killzone 2. My point was simply that that website is terrible. Which it is.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

Maybe the average of 70ish just means there are some pretty good games out there. Mediocre by definition would be around the 50 mark.

No. If the average score is around 70ish, then anything that gets 7\10 is mediocre. Not good, but completely average.

(Yes, i know that IGN and other sites say 7\10 = good) but thats completely irrelevant, because if the average score is 7\10 then that means 7\10 is mediocre.

Game reviewers are so scared of publishers that they only use the upper half of the scale for 95% of all games. That doesn't mean that 95% of all games out there are good.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

http://www.ps3fanboy.com/2008/07/22/ps3-fanboy-hands-on-killzone-2/
http://gamesblog.ugo.com/index.php/gamesblog/more/live_from_e3_killzone_2_impressions/
http://www.ripten.com/2008/07/21/e3-08-hands-on-preview-killzone-2/
http://ps3.kombo.com/article.php?artid=7574
http://www.crispygamer.com/features/2008-07-17/the-five-killzone-2.aspx
http://www.gamervision.com/gamer/coop/blog/article/e3_08_hands_on_killzone_2
http://www.joystiq.com/2008/07/18/joystiq-e3-hands-on-killzone-2/
http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=190372
http://arstechnica.com/journals/thu...lzone-2-presently-polished-pretty-predictable

Everybody who was invited into Sony's press room played through the first level.

I couldn't be bothered to click all the links, but most of the ones i clicked where all impressions based on the E3 2008 1 hour presentation, hands off, you watch a dev play the game while he talks PR. Not my idea of a preview.

 

[deepbrown]

I couldn't be bothered to click all the links, but most of the ones i clicked where all impressions based on the E3 2008 1 hour presentation, hands off, you watch a dev play the game while he talks PR. Not my idea of a preview.

No Oste. They had hands-on. They say they are "Hands-on". Whether it's only 20minutes or an hour, they played the first level. Killzone 2 was available for play at E3. I know this, so stop questioning me.

 

[patsu]

The journalists have already played the same KZ2 level before. Sony held a pre-E3 Judge's Day for them to rate "Best of Show" earlier on. KZ2 was one of the games in the event.
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2008/05/16/behind-the-scenes-at-scea-judges-day/comment-page-2/

Some magazines like EGM (1UP) also get to feature KZ2 in their magazines around E3 timeframe. Playing the pre-alpha KZ2 is not that exclusive anymore.

I read somewhere that the E3 demo extended the gameplay like 5 minutes. That is all. I think the hands off part is the multiplayer portion.

Besides the Joystiq and ArsTechnica "hands-on" previews above, here're 1UP's and IGN's take in E3:
* http://ps3.ign.com/articles/890/890247p1.html
* http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3168601&p=37
They are missing from deepbrown's list.

 

[the ignoramus]

Killzone 2's best preview is probably from Eurogamer. They praise the graphics and overall polish and make noncommittal remarks about the gameplay, noting that while they hadnt played enough of the game to pass any sort of real judgement, they saw potential in spades.
More importantly, they refrain from making the kind of half baked judgements and false allegations present in this condescending little KZ2 preview written by Edge magazine.

(I think its total bullshit that Edge are claiming things like "the game takes no risks, neither in design nor tone.", when they played a twenty minute segment of the second level of the game.)

The Gamer's Day build is basically 1 half of the second level and easily the most "average" bit of KZ2 gameplay. You assault a beach, fight in a warehouse, then open a valve with the sixaxis functionality.

The E3 build is the second half of the level, which includes more intense gameplay and a tank battle.

Almost all of the 'negative' criticism about KZ2 focuses on the lack "freshness", although I suspect this has a lot to do with SCEE being pretty restrained with how much of the game they show/spoil.
For instance, look at the KZ2 multiplayer footage; that's fresh, exciting stuff that nobody anticipated or expected; clearly Guerilla have lots up their sleeves that they simply havent shown; which is the reason the game continues to impress with each public appearance. I cant wait for Leipzig!

 

[Cheezdoodles]

No Oste. They had hands-on. They say they are "Hands-on". Whether it's only 20minutes or an hour, they played the first level. Killzone 2 was available for play at E3. I know this, so stop questioning me.

Im not questioning you.

I simply asked. Quite a few of them are just presentations, or so it seems at first glance. The first paragraph in the eurogamer "preview" for example says :

#we were watching Guerrilla's Eric Boltjes outline the firm's Killzone 2 multiplayer strategy.

Boltjes' session was hands-off - a slideshow with some video attachments, really - but it still happily ran to the 50-minute mark as he ripped through every detail"

 

[deepbrown]

Im not questioning you.

I simply asked. Quite a few of them are just presentations, or so it seems at first glance. The first paragraph in the eurogamer "preview" for example says :

That's because the multiplayer was not playable, but the singleplayer was. Hopefully that sorts out the confusion.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

Ah, thanks. I dont really read previews much anymore (no time) and when i googled Killzone 2 preview i only saw stuff about the multiplayer presentation.

Btw what are the hellgast anyway? Is this game going to have monsters and laser guns, or is it weapons that fire bullets and humanoids? I prefer the latter, dont really care for monsters\aliens and laser weapons at all (Im not particularly fond of gears of war for example)

 

[betan]

Ah, thanks. I dont really read previews much anymore (no time) and when i googled Killzone 2 preview i only saw stuff about the multiplayer presentation.

Btw what are the hellgast anyway? Is this game going to have monsters and laser guns, or is it weapons that fire bullets and humanoids? I prefer the latter, dont really care for monsters\aliens and laser weapons at all (Im not particularly fond of gears of war for example)

The first one was exactly same as what you see in K2 gameplay videos.
Helghast are ex-humans evolved slightly differently under the influence of their new homeworld.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

The first one was exactly same as what you see in K2 gameplay videos.
Helghast are ex-humans evolved slightly differently under the influence of their new homeworld.

YEah, i like that they look like evil humanoids, instead of the "monster" direction of gears of war.

 

[betan]

YEah, i like that they look like evil humanoids, instead of the "monster" direction of gears of war.

Me too (I really hope R2 has vs human fights), but Helghast doesn't really look evil without the helmet on. One can even argue they look like cute bald dwarves.

 

[DrJay24]

Me too (I really hope R2 has vs human fights), but Helghast doesn't really look evil without the helmet on. One can even argue they look like cute bald dwarves.

I'm pretty sure they are just humans who migrated and adapted to a different planet.

 

[betan]

I'm pretty sure they are just humans who migrated and adapted to a different planet.

Didn't I say that?
If you are talking about bald dwarf part, they are bald and look like dwarves because of the thick short neck and etc.

 

[the ignoramus]

ignoramus, where did you read that from ?

Here you go, the exact quote.


Seb Downie, Killzone 2 Q&A Manager;

Different environments have different severities of weather. Some of this can be seen in multiplayer as well yes, but maybe not to the same extent as some of the later Single Player levels, or it might make fragging a bit difficult.

More on AI; Watch this clip from Blim Blim at Gamersryde--at the 3:30 mark watch the Helghast. One fires at you, backs up slowly, then turns on his heel and heads for cover, another Helghast (offscreen) heads into frame and climbs up a set of stairs towards cover.
At the the 3:53 mark, the remaining Helghast throws a grenade in the player's direction, exposing himself, returns to cover for a moment, then promptly leans out from cover, ready to target you.
That's inherently logical decision making; the grenade wasnt thrown accurately, so the player didnt need to move to escape the blast radius, but had the grenade not missed its mark, the AI would have correctly anticipated the player's movements.

3:53 AI throws grenade.
3:53 AI anticipates timed delay of the detonation, returns to cover.
3:54 AI waits in cover
3:55 AI leans from cover,anticipating the player's movement away from the presumed blast radius.

 

[Need 2 Know]

Just thought I would share this, some new unseen footage of theKZ2 Multiplayer Menu, looking good if you ask me.

Games.tiscali.cz has some never seen before multiplayer menu photos of Killzone 2. What we can see is that there are 8 maps(already confirmed) and customizable match options such as weapon locking/omission. Also, as promised, Killzone 2 will take advantage of the current Killzone.com which links to the PSN accounts of Killzone gamers. We’ll be able to stat track and manage clans from there. Take a look at the images below.

Also updated is a lengthy character profile for the ISA Alpha Team at Killzone.com. The profile gives a good bit of back story on the lead ISA characters of the game, including Killzone’s original hero, Jan Templar. It’s a must read for Killzone fans!


http://www.killzoneunit.com/kz/?p=1358


Cheers

 

[patsu]

More on AI; Watch this clip from Blim Blim at Gamersryde--at the 3:30 mark watch the Helghast. One fires at you, backs up slowly, then turns on his heel and heads for cover, another Helghast (offscreen) heads into frame and climbs up a set of stairs towards cover.
At the the 3:53 mark, the remaining Helghast throws a grenade in the player's direction, exposing himself, returns to cover for a moment, then promptly leans out from cover, ready to target you.
That's inherently logical decision making; the grenade wasnt thrown accurately, so the player didnt need to move to escape the blast radius, but had the grenade not missed its mark, the AI would have correctly anticipated the player's movements.

3:53 AI throws grenade.
3:53 AI anticipates timed delay of the detonation, returns to cover.
3:54 AI waits in cover
3:55 AI leans from cover,anticipating the player's movement away from the presumed blast radius.

Found this gem on GAF: http://aigamedev.com/site/2008-plan-killzone

Well, this is one of those cool projects: the kind that most AI enthusiast (myself included) ponder about during daydreams. It’s definitely going to be both fun and challenging at the same time. In an ideal world, I’d probably even do it for free — but of course I didn’t tell Guerrilla that…

The AI team here in Amsterdam is pretty amazing, and I’m particularly looking forward to working with them. Some of you may know Remco Straatman or Arjen Beij from GDC or even the AI Wisdom books.

The author has been working on KZ2 since January. Would certainly love to see what everyone on his team can deliver.

EDIT: Reading through the page quickly...

In particular, there are three areas relating to game AI that I would like to apply this technology to.

it seems that in his view, Hierarchical Path Finding and Sensory System are not part of the AI subsystem. I always thought they are an integral part of AI. What exactly does Game AI include ? Just character decision making logic ?

 

[chris1515]

http://aigamedev.com/videos/sneak-peek-killzone-ai

a Link with a video from the 1Up show in the GG studio tour. Very impressive AI with a hellgast changing of position to react to the partial destruction of his cover and when the cover is compterly destroy he change of cover.

And they say that the destructible structure are procédural no script, good physic engine.

 

[RenegadeRocks]

Hmmm...so, the cover can be completley destroyed ! Thats cool, as I thought it would be only partially destructible, but as shown in this AI demo, it is completely destructible and then the AI moves to find another cover. Its cool! Also, the gameplay vid at gamersyde also shows some interesting Helghast behaviour, stopping and moving back,etc. What I like the most in the gameplay vids regarding Helghast behaviour is still the hit- detection animations! Helghast grasping his eye when a bullet hit there feels too good, a huge step ahead from mindlessly charging NPCs! I mean, a helghast charges at you and u shoot blindly out of reaction and the bullet hits him in the eye and he grabs his face and falls down feels so "Games of the future" kind ! No flame wars here( I love both the games), but Gears2 's limping NPC crawling on the ground feels very backward after this.
The only thing that hinders their cool behaviour is that sometimes u can see Helghast stopping and moving back or changing decision. In that moment of change, they look very clumsy and foolish as you see a soldier stop dead in his track, look around and move back.You get a lot of time to shoot him in this change phase.Advanced AI can sometimes look foolish and stupid in action.

 

["Nerve-Damage"]

Nice take...can't wait

Killzone 2: The Good, the Bad and the Pretty

The visual tone of Killzone 2 is very muted. This isn't a game with lush tropical jungles or fairy kingdoms with rainbow highways (well, not that we know of) – it's a bad-ass war sim that takes place in gutted environments and through grim concrete bunkers. As a result, this is a game that can come across as a little on the grey side at first. While that may not be to everybody's taste, we love the realistic colour palette. Not only does it create an oppressive mood, it's allowed the development team to very effectively utilise the colour that is in the game.

Killzone 2's visual design is definitely one of its strongest elements. The Helghast helmets, with their striking red goggles, are nothing short of iconic, as are the infantry transport vehicles. The environments have quite distinctive architecture; full of imposing concrete bunkers and industrial warehouses that reflect the military focus of the world, while the effects of war are also clearly visible in the destruction of the player's surroundings.