Intel ARC GPUs, Xe Architecture for dGPUs [2022-]

[Lurkmass]

Intel has zero market share so their immediate priority should be sales volumes and not margin. They can get there if they keep costs under control while delivering decent performance. That gives them some leeway to undercut Nvidia and AMD pricing. But that’s a big if. Without a cost efficient design they’ll be right back here next generation.

Ultimately, what I think Intel is missing are compelling features to be standardized. When do you think was it the last time Intel has made as good of a case for features like the others did with RT or Work Graphs ?

 

[entity279]

most of y'all will even agree in your rare moments of lucidity ,

This is kind of condescending tone needs to go away.
Yes, if indeed the majority here would really be so obtuse, why even discuss which such people? Pretty sure the discussion between a lucid person and others who have just very few moments of lucidity cannot be about sharing information and will rarely be in good faith.
So maybe you're exaggerating whith statements like this or there's no point in you continuing to post here as the people are so far bellow you. Which is it?

I literally keep saying it over and over

You don't have to, it's your choice wether to repeat or not. You can remind from time to time that "my position is.."/"i feel that this..." to restate your opinion about prices.
But this is just your opionion, it's not that releavant in the end on a tech forum. It's useful to understand from where you are coming when interpreting a post of yours , but that's about it, in my view.

literally keep saying it over and over and y'all seem to just keep ignoring it everytime, making a strawman out of my arguments, as arguing against what I'm really saying is much harder to push against. It's becoming quite obnoxious, honestly.

You'd have to address the strawmen and miss interpretation of your words when they occur.
This is not fair to say, and is not believable. Again, such people would not be worth your time; if we really would spin around or ignore everything you have to say.

 

[trinibwoy]

I dont know HOW MANY TIMES I have to keep saying that I'd have been ok with some level of price increase for the very real cost pressure increases that have happened.

But this just means you don’t like paying more for stuff. None of us does. Nobody here is celebrating price increases. That’s simply ridiculous.

You’re railing against “greedy corporations” because you think they can and should sell us stuff for less money. You’re not saying “why” they should sell us stuff for less money. There’s no ethical argument to make here for graphics card prices. You need to make an economic argument.

 

[trinibwoy]

Ultimately, what I think Intel is missing are compelling features to be standardized. When do you think was it the last time Intel has made as good of a case for features like the others did with RT or Work Graphs ?

Compelling to devs or consumers? Intel has a decent marketing machine and they currently check most of the boxes consumers care about aside from the big one - performance. If they address that then it’s game on.

They don’t need to become a developer darling overnight and there’s lots of existing features and APIs for them to flex their stuff. They’re already showing signs of savvy marketing with the Tom Peterson roadshows.

 

[Lurkmass]

Compelling to devs or consumers? Intel has a decent marketing machine and they currently check most of the boxes consumers care about aside from the big one - performance. If they address that then it’s game on.

Ideally both and it's harder to reach feature implementation parity among the differing vendors since some features may not necessarily map well for all hardware designs which is a function of performance and you as an architect can't easily workaround it by duplicating all sorts of logic circuits with a limited transistor budget ...

They don’t need to become a developer darling overnight and there’s lots of existing features and APIs for them to flex their stuff. They’re already showing signs of savvy marketing with the Tom Peterson roadshows.

Sure but it's much easier to undercut their other competitors if they were the ones solely making up the new API rules instead of having them do it ...

 

[nutball]

You’re railing against “greedy corporations” because you think they can and should sell us stuff for less money. You’re not saying “why” they should sell us stuff for less money. There’s no ethical argument to make here for graphics card prices. You need to make an economic argument.

It also needs to be backed by a legal argument how the corporation(s) can route around the lawsuits from the shareholders if they wilfully choose to make less profit that they could in normal market conditions. Opportunity costs I believe they're called.

Cheap graphics cards are not a human right, they are not going to be air-dropped from the back of a C-130 by the United Nations.

 

[Seanspeed]

You’re railing against “greedy corporations” because you think they can and should sell us stuff for less money. You’re not saying “why” they should sell us stuff for less money.

OH MY GOD. lol

I have very explicitly described in detail WHY this should be happening, but y'all also told me in doing so that such things shouldn't be talked about for some bizarre reason. I was literally told off for doing so in like the past week. I brought up fact-based arguments and was told to stop it.

It's wild. It's just so absurdly wild I'm near at loss for words. Y'all have done everything possible to ensure that complaining about GPU prices is basically not even allowed.

 

[Seanspeed]

It also needs to be backed by a legal argument how the corporation(s) can route around the lawsuits from the shareholders if they wilfully choose to make less profit that they could in normal market conditions. Opportunity costs I believe they're called.

Cheap graphics cards are not a human right, they are not going to be air-dropped from the back of a C-130 by the United Nations.

And here we literally have somebody trying to argue that GPU prices SHOULD be priced literally as high as humanly possible.

So please dont tell me I'm crazy for saying that people are defending high GPU prices. And this post is getting upvoted by many people as well. It's literally THE popular opinion here that GPU prices should be as exploitative as possible for the sake of shareholders, and at the expense of consumers. And yet I'm the crazy one for saying that GPU prices are unreasonable. smh

I honestly feel like I'm living in crazy world.

 

[Arun]

The bigger problem is this argument is consistently derailing many threads that are supposed to be about something else. Some posts make good points, others are just pointless rants, but *none* of them belong in the architecture forum or in an Intel-specific thread.

At this point it's not going away so we'll probably just have to create a new dedicated thread in the Graphics & Semiconductor Industry forum and make sure the discussion stays contained there... I'm not sure how best to describe the scope of that thread or whether all the other moderators agree (or what rules if any to apply) so I'm not going to do it right now, but hopefully tomorrow or Monday.

It'd be great if we could stop overfocusing on this until then...

 

[trinibwoy]

I have very explicitly described in detail WHY this should be happening.

I must have missed that. A dedicated thread on the economics of consumer gpu pricing is a good idea.