Intel ARC GPUs, Xe Architecture for dGPUs [2022-]

Just carrying on in response to this post regarding Arc performance outside of gaming from the old thread -


Geekbench is just one benchmark. Techgage has done a large set of tests in terms of more compute oriented creation software -

 
Impressive compute performance. Smaller wavefront sizes helping with efficiency?

Not in terms of efficiency given theoretical FP32 throughput. However because Arc 770 16GB is being priced in terms of gaming market penetration primarily it does effectively offer a very high amount of raw compute and VRAM (especially that VRAM advantage which doesn't show directly in the benchmarks) for the price that creation workloads can take advantage. Nvidia's RTX 3060 (due how it's also relatively high VRAM configuration compared to gaming benefits) due to support levels won't be clearly unseated. But Intel does have the resources on this front to further push here.

Will also be interesting to see more ML scenarios, especially with the growing popularity of usage for inferencing at the consumer level.

As an aside, an interesting conundrum with their potential next generation Battlemage is that depending on the direction of how they improve gaming performance and how the product stack ends up we might once against lose VRAM/$ (at least in the lower prices ranges) much like how it's looking to shape up with Nvidia/AMD.

For context with some of the relevant cards used in the Techgage article to compare -

FP 32 TFLOPSMemory Bandwidth (GB/s)
Intel Arc 770 16GB17.20512
Nvidia RTX 3060ti 8GB16.20448
Nvidia RTX 3060 12GB12.74360
AMD 6600XT 8GB10.60256

It's also worth to emphasis, given that we know have 3 IHVs each with slightly different mechanisms, that we don't actually know the real TFLOPS numbers to a high precision as real clock speeds during workload can vary and the spec TFLOPS numbers are just based on the "boost" clock equivalent for each. We're looking at possible variance up to ~15% in some cases. For instance if Arc 770 is actually reaching 2.4ghz instead of the 2.1ghz spec we could be looking at 19.66 TFLOPS in practice.

Edit: Fixed 3060ti/3060 error in table
 
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Missed this when it came out, Linus talking about Arc: Please Buy Intel GPU's.

The title is tongue in largely tongue in cheek, but I facepalmed about 4 minutes in, when Linus attempts to explain why Counterstrike's performance is so abysmal:

"Arc isn't exactly running DX9 games in DX9. Instead, they're running DX9 in a DX12 translation layer. This works because you can turn basically any DX9 command into a string of DX12 commands, which is great for compatibility, but in the process you are adding a buttload of CPU overhead. So much that any small background task can significantly affect your framerates."

Any evidence to cite this? None in this video at least.

First off, this is a common misconception with how DXVK works - but a misconception that a well established tech channel shouldn't have by now. When DXVK started making the rounds years ago as a solution to get GTA IV running smoothly on Windows - especially on older systems - I routinely saw people comment on how they're amazed a game running under DXVK can work at all, but even perform equal, or better than DX9/11 in some cases. They just figure that with the 'overhead' of 'emulating' another API that the game wasn't programmed in, this should naturally result in drastically lower performance.

But this isn't like 'emulating' a CPU, the overhead (if you can even call it that) is extremely minimal, and in some cases due to how Vulkan works, can actually present a more efficient path for the rendering engine. This is exactly how GTA IV on my 9400F at the time could actually maintain 60fps while on native DX9, it struggled to stay above 45. Though various games, I have not once experienced a game running in Vulkan present more cpu overhead - only less on occasion.

This really shouldn't even take this surface level understanding for pete's sake - just the very existence of the Steam Deck completely invalidates the theory that emulating a higher-level older API on a lower-level newer API is a tremendous CPU burden! How could this quad-core, 12wt device able to run any Windows game if that was the case? It's not like it's saving this 'buttload' of CPU cycles simply because the SteamOS isn't having to occasionally fire up Onedrive sync in the background or refreshing the Weather app runtime (neither of which happen when benchmarking GPU's regardless). If this overhead existed, then Steam Deck would not have been viable as a concept let alone a shipping product.

I obviously can't speak to the competence of DX9to12 by itself right now, as it's not a simple .dll I can just swap in any game's .exe folder and test myself. But there is no reason to believe this functions vastly differently than DXVK does and there isn't ample room for significant improvement. If you're at least going to make a claim like 'buttload of CPU overhead', then actually cite something.

But hey, it's not a video about the 500th way you can cool a CPU so not really in the average PC DIY youtuber's wheelhouse I guess.
 
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For context with some of the relevant cards used in the Techgage article to compare -

FP 32 TFLOPSMemory Bandwidth (GB/s)
Intel Arc 770 16GB17.20512
Nvidia RTX 3060 12 GB16.20448
Nvidia RTX 3060ti 8GB12.74360
AMD 6600XT 8GB10.60256

Think you got the 3060 and 3060ti reversed there.
 
Missed this when it came out, Linus talking about Arc: Please Buy Intel GPU's.

The title is tongue in largely tongue in cheek, but I facepalmed about 4 minutes in, when Linus attempts to explain why Counterstrike's performance is so abysmal:

"Arc isn't exactly running DX9 games in DX9. Instead, they're running DX9 in a DX12 translation layer. This works because you can turn basically any DX9 command into a string of DX12 commands, which is great for compatibility, but in the process you are adding a buttload of CPU overhead. So much that any small background task can significantly affect your framerates."

Any evidence to cite this? None in this video at least.

First off, this is a common misconception with how DXVK works - but a misconception that a well established tech channel shouldn't have by now. When DXVK started making the rounds years ago as a solution to get GTA IV running smoothly on Windows - especially on older systems - I routinely saw people comment on how they're amazed a game running under DXVK can work at all, but even perform equal, or better than DX9/11 in some cases. They just figure that with the 'overhead' of 'emulating' another API that the game wasn't programmed in, this should naturally result in drastically lower performance.

But this isn't like 'emulating' a CPU, the overhead (if you can even call it that) is extremely minimal, and in some cases due to how Vulkan works, can actually present a more efficient path for the rendering engine. This is exactly how GTA IV on my 9400F at the time could actually maintain 60fps while on native DX9, it struggled to stay above 45. Though various games, I have not once experienced a game running in Vulkan present more cpu overhead - only less on occasion.

This really shouldn't even take this surface level understanding for pete's sake - just the very existence of the Steam Deck completely invalidates the theory that emulating a higher-level older API on a lower-level newer API is a tremendous CPU burden! How could this quad-core, 12wt device able to run any Windows game if that was the case? It's not like it's saving this 'buttload' of CPU cycles simply because the SteamOS isn't having to occasionally fire up Onedrive sync in the background or refreshing the Weather app runtime (neither of which happen when benchmarking GPU's regardless). If this overhead existed, then Steam Deck would not have been viable as a concept let alone a shipping product.

I obviously can't speak to the competence of DX9to12 by itself right now, as it's not a simple .dll I can just swap in any game's .exe folder and test myself. But there is no reason to believe this functions vastly differently than DXVK does and there isn't ample room for significant improvement. If you're at least going to make a claim like 'buttload of CPU overhead', then actually cite something.

But hey, it's not a video about the 500th way you can cool a CPU so not really in the average PC DIY youtuber's wheelhouse I guess.
If your interested I believe this is what is being used by ARC.
 
I have a system using Alder Lake's Xe-LP UHD 770 and I heard it uses D3D9on12 as well. Out of curiosity I tried some old Direct3D 7 games and none of them worked. Some would load to the menu but crash when trying to render anything. I guess you would need DGVoodoo2 to play these now. Some Direct3D 8 games work though, like Unreal 2.
 
I have a system using Alder Lake's Xe-LP UHD 770 and I heard it uses D3D9on12 as well. Out of curiosity I tried some old Direct3D 7 games and none of them worked. Some would load to the menu but crash when trying to render anything. I guess you would need DGVoodoo2 to play these now. Some Direct3D 8 games work though, like Unreal 2.
Try DXVK?
 
It looks like it only supports D3D 9 and later.
Just like D3D9to12. The trick is in D3D9 being backwards compatible all the way, D3D10 was the first to break the tradition.
edit: It's also what SteamDeck uses
 
Just like D3D9to12. The trick is in D3D9 being backwards compatible all the way, D3D10 was the first to break the tradition.
edit: It's also what SteamDeck uses
DXVK doesn't pack any dlls older than d3d9.dll. Games prior to D3D 8 want want ddraw.dll and/or d3dimm.dll. I also don't see any mentions anywhere of it being compatible with anything prior to 9.

DGVoodoo2 has had years of work and testing put into the quirky compatibility issues of those early Direct3D games so that's probably the way to go anyway.
 
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finally purchased the A770 16GB model today. 450€. The delivery date seems to be around October 25th, but hopefully I can get it sooner.

I was torn between this and the RX 6700XT 'cos I really like that GPU and AMD overall, but since I had saved the money for a new GPU and wanted to try Intel after having AMD and nVidia cards before, taking into account that I liked the reviews of the A770 overall, it was an easy decision.
 
Here in germany, you can only preorder Arc A770/750 and only LEs are available for pre order. The 770 is at "only" 420€ (compared to your 450) though.

I'm curious: What did drive your decision, saying it was an easy one? The only things I can think of right now would be a) curiosity, b) RT perf compared to RX and c) AV1 encoding. Gaming perf in general would not be preferrable esp. compared to 6700 XT.
 
Here in germany, you can only preorder Arc A770/750 and only LEs are available for pre order. The 770 is at "only" 420€ (compared to your 450) though.

I'm curious: What did drive your decision, saying it was an easy one? The only things I can think of right now would be a) curiosity, b) RT perf compared to RX and c) AV1 encoding. Gaming perf in general would not be preferrable esp. compared to 6700 XT.
420€ the 16GB model?

You're a lucky guy. I live in Galicia and that's the best price I could find.

It wasn't super easy, because just today I found a very tempting 6700XT for 479€, but there are a few reasons why I took the plunge.

- the amount of VRAM, it's future proof.
- I am very used to Intel graphics 'cos I've had many laptops, except overall perf I liked the control panel interface of those GPUs.
- my GTX 1080 still works but lacks many features. I retrofitted it a few times to improve it, but the innards are a bit messy 'cos of that and I had to do "odd" things in my mobo and PC case for the retrofit to work (my mobo and PC case will return to normal once I plug the A770)
- curiosity as you mention.
- very forward looking support for modern technologies, like HDMI 2.1 (I have the cable and I now use a 4K TV as my PC display) and DisplayPort 2.0
- RT performance. It's usually better than the RX 6700XT, and more noticeable at 1440p and 4K.
- nVidia wasn't an option for now. I have no Gsync monitor to force me to get a nVidia card, and got tired of their policies artificially limiting previous gen GPUs like disabling NIS + HDR on Pascal gpus (although you can have NIS alone), or no Resizable BAR except for the RTX 3000 series.
 
Has anybody run D3D AF Tester on one of these cards yet? I want to see filtering shenanigans! :D
 
Has anybody run D3D AF Tester on one of these cards yet? I want to see filtering shenanigans! :D
might give it a try once I have installed the GPU. Tbh, I dunno about the exact delivery date, but I guess it will be here before October 25th.

@CarstenS another reason to buy the GPU is to support a 3rd competitor and also because of the "probable" room for improvement factor.

With nVidia and AMD it is mostly what you see what you get once the initial benchmarks are published. Their drivers are usually more mature. Intel hardware suggests better numbers might be achievable.

@arandomguy I think you used the bandwidth numbers from the A750 for the A770, whose max bandwidth is 560GB/s afaik.
 
Been chatting with an american guy and he told me that the A770 is already sold out in the USA. My guess is that they only made a few.

Where I live the A770 16GB is the only model being sold, the rest seem to be mia
 
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