Forza 2 Interview + Wireframes

Once and for all. The garage in PGR3 is exactly the same as when playing. Same models, same lightning engine, same everything.

And thos forza models look superb. Things look a little bit more rounded off than in PGR3.

 

slapnutz, might want to resize that image.

 

FWIW i just made a wireframe screenshot of one of my programs, 268,000 polys (but less since wont be onscreen, say 250,000)

 

and tiling would have speeded up their engine exactly how?

they had no tiling, ergo no 4xMSAA, but that does not give their engine any speed disadvantage compared to if it had tiling.

that with or without FSAA? : )

anyhow. i do agree that as pgr3 was one half-baked launch title which did not do justice to the platform (despite all the fanbase ohhs and ahhs), i can't see how parallels to it can be used for distinguishing anything 2nd gen.

 

Haveing the rendering engine optimized for the hardware would obviously result in performance improvements.

Or are you taking the opposite view, which of course would suggest that any game designed around the 360 and then ported to the PS3 would require no additional optimization as it would result in no improvements.

 

probably there is still a lot of work to be done. they showed a cgi trailer at E3

i hope they arent rendering at 600p like pgr3 did

 

you somehow missed my question. which was:

tiling would have speeded up their engine exactly how?

you also missed the hint i gave you:

PGR3 rendition fits nicely in the available EDRAM as it is.

 

Apparantly the Forza 2 engine is the first real engine that suports tileing. So 4XMSAA+HDR+720P here we come.

 

I didn't miss anything.

I guess you missed the part where I said

Of course if you disagree I'm sure the guys at Bizarre would love to hear you tell them they are wrong and don't know what they are talking about.

As for your suggestion that the game "fit nicely" into the EDRAM without tiling I would like to know if forcing the game to run at a reduced resolution internally and then upscaling the output is your idea of "fitting nicely."

 

Fit nicely

I think maybe what Bizarre says is they have CPU limitation not GPU limitation. So with little bit more time they can have better CPU "utilization" so they can have more GPU performance. Remember another developer (MotoGP) also says they think they make perfect graphics scaling engine design before final dev kit but have CPU limitation surprise.

So now we know (probably) why many Xbox360 do not have full Xenos graphics power no? I feel PGR4 will have much better graphics because they will have better CPU utilization.

Also, tiling is different issue, no? It is not for making game more fast but for AA only.

For 10MB EDRAM, PGR3 resolution (~600P) is perfect resolution for little bit AA (2x), no? Also (if there is no CPU limitation) lower resolution is good for better frame-rate and more shaders. If Forza 2 and PGR4 can have same shaders (as PGR3) and 720P and 60fps then it will have 3x PGR3 shader performance. I dont know, we must wait to see. If it is true then probably PGR3 has very large CPU limitaion!

 

no, i guess you did not care to make sense in the first place so i guess my question flew over your keg anyway.

performance-wise - absolutely.

 

oops, i guess i should have read the faq. Sorry. However this may sound noobish.. but i cant find the "edit button"... I'm presumming it should appear within my Post window as long as i'm logged in???

I checked the faq and yup, i should be seeing an Edit button? Mods... can you help please?

 

opps x2... i just discovered that I am not allowed to Edit my posts. (according to my Posting Rules).

I guess its gonna stay up there for all to see my shame until the Mod changes it (or kicks me out)

 

Hmm, I'll be sure to let the guys at Bizarre know that you know more about programing their game than they do. I'm sure they will be sending that job application right to you since you are such an authority on how their game works, being the uber-developer that you are.

 

You mean the postmortem where they admit they made "mistakes" in creating the rendering engine because of guesses they made with incomplete information? They had a call overhead problem, not a CPU problem.

 

http://forzamotorsport.net/devcorner/pitpass/pitpass12.htm

Nice to hear about development. The fact they are holding out soooo long on SS... I hope it doesn't let us down!

 

Cpu

They say they have no problems except very high call overhead problem. This is because directx API call overhead has too much CPU cycles, no? If they can make less call overhead for CPU and have more CPU "utlization" also then I think this is why PGR3 "guy" says 3 more months is enough for 2x performance. Remember, many developer says they do not have full 3 core performance because of short development times. So maybe soon we can see Xbox360 games with 2x PGR3 graphics!

This article can explain Directx9 call overhead problem for CPU bottleneck and Directx10 benefits:

http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTA0NSwyLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==

 

i believe the call overhead only really applies on pc's with d3d9 + lesser ie not for consoles running d3d

 

It appears that the overhead for draw calls is something the Xbox 360 was (is?) facing until an update to the Xbox D3D API is released.

So like the PC there was/is an overhead for draw calls, and this will be/was resolved with an API update which came too late for MotoGP to utilize. I am wondering if this was part of the big API update in May that also resolved a number of issues like predicated tiling and whatnot. Sounds like the Xbox API was/is still very much a work in progress, especially if they are going to continue to port over some D3D10 API attributes and behaviors.