Formula 1 - 2014 Season
- Thread starter Dave Baumann
- Start date
If you don't limit the fuel flow, you run the risk of having engines that are way more powerful which would raise safety concerns. The fuel flow is the alternative to limiting power. At least this way, you can see who comes up with the most efficient solution - but the rule must be enforcable and the fuel flow sensors need to work accurately. If they can't ensure this, then it's kind of a pointless rule to have.
There's more to the Redbull story too. Apparently, RedBull feels that the sensor (and the correction values they were given during the race when the FIA notified them that they were running above the threshold) was incorrect and that they were within the rules. If this happens to be true (and given they can prove this), then I really feel a shitstorm heading towards F1 and the FIA.
I'm not sure this will have a big impact on speed overall if they were overestimating fuel flow. They are still limited to 100kg fuel per race so fuel management won't go away. The only reason that they weren't telling drivers to back off this weekend is the safety car / extra formation lap saving quite a lot of fuel.
Rurouni
Veteran
I don't think it was RB that discover it. I believe some (or maybe all) of the teams knew about this problem. Other team willing to run with a safe fuel flow margin (I read somewhere that a team run at a maximum of 96kg/h just to be safe) while RB just ignore FIA suggestion and run with what they believe is correct and try to argue it after the race, which is stupid and kinda arrogant.
This does seem to be the case. A number of teams being told to limit fuel flow by the FIA, and even though they didn't necessarily agree with the numbers they were being given, they did so anyway to ensure they conformed. Seems a bit stupid of RB to simply say "our readings are more accurate" and ignore the request. They should have erred on the side of caution and then argued for changes afterwards.
This is the sensor in question. Gill sensors guarantee that 92% of sensors are accurate to within 0.25% from the factory. The sensors are then calibrated by Calibra before given to the teams.
Even if the sensor did error on the high side, it would be the same for all the teams since they are all calibrated the same way.
This is just regular Red Bull shenanigans, not stupidity, IMO.
Cheers
The shit storm would be OK if FIA let this slide. If one team can ignore a direct order from FIA then how should the rest of the teams feel about that.
I fully agree to any team ignoring incorrect orders (not safety related, of course). We'll see now if this was the case in this incident.
And per race.
The cars have a maximum of 100kgs of fuel on board and are also limited to a maximum fuel flow of 100kgs per hour.
So running at the maximum allowed they would never finish a race
No, 100 Kg total AND 100 Kg/h average. At no point can they use more than 100 Kg/h in fuel flow rate and they are limited to 100 Kg in total.
Well, something to note is that the average race time is comparable to the past few years. In all it was just shy of 3 minutes slower than last year, but that year appeared to have no safety cars. It was about 1 minute faster than 2012 (with a 4 lap safety car this year and 5 laps in 2012), 2 and half mins slower than 2011 (no SC in 2011) and 30 seconds faster than 2010 (one 4 laps SC for both).
While out-right pace may appear to be down, on this track at least it would appear that the peaks and troughs of lap pace have been evened out a little equating to a roughly similar race time. If Hamilton and Rosberg were both in the race at the same time I suspect we may have had a few more opportunities to see a truer view of Mercedes true race pace may be.
Maybe not. The purpose of the 100kg/hr rule might be to prevent teams from having to send lots of "you need to save fuel" messages so that the driver can run at 200kg/hr for the last 10 laps. People objected strongly to the fact that teams were telling drivers to slow down. This makes sure that it doesn't happen (to an extent) because a certain amount of fuel saving is built in to the rules and therefore not broadcast in every radio message.
Let them, every team will have the same options available.
Additionally if someone chooses to conserve fuel at the same time someone else chooses to burn it, does that not make things a little more interesting? The current difference between fuel saver vs fuel burner is not large enough.
As I said, the rules intention is mainly due to security concerns. Because engine power isn't limited, the fuel flow limit effectively puts a limit on how much power these engines can make. It's to avoid the PS monster engines of the former Turbo area. With the amount of downforce available now days, it would quickly make the sport a lot more dangerous. Fuel flow limit limits the engines power and forces the engineers to try to be as efficiently as possible (get the most power from the dictated max fuel flow).
The 100kg/h fuel flow limit does not prevent teams having to tell their drivers to save fuel in any way, since they can only have 100kg of fuel over the entire duration of the race (the fuel flow limit is higher).
The 100kg/h fuel flow limit does not prevent teams having to tell their drivers to save fuel in any way, since they can only have 100kg of fuel over the entire duration of the race (the fuel flow limit is higher).
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
Not true. That era was totally different. Fuel that wasn't really normal fuel anymore and special quali engines that lasted only a couple of laps (in race trim they had like half the power output).
With today's engines and gearboxes having to last multiple races + limited boost on the turbo there is no way some extra fuel is going to give these cars insane power. And with the limited downforce they have now I wonder how much use they could actually make of this extra power. The only thing where more speed is really going to be more "dangerous" is in the high speed corners.
Also with regards to safety, does it really matter if they take a corner at 200 or 230kmph?
I think that the flow limitations may be an attempt for the engine to reach a "diminishing returns" functioning mode, a point where increasing power output by a tiny bit would require a massive increase in fuel flow. Such a feature would have been used probably for 1-2 crucial overtakes during the race, being that expensive.
Instead, with this flow limitation, the engine is somehow constrained to have similar (not greatly reduced) efficiency in high performance mode and fuel efficiency mode.
But then again, I've no clue about engine engineering.
Instead, with this flow limitation, the engine is somehow constrained to have similar (not greatly reduced) efficiency in high performance mode and fuel efficiency mode.
But then again, I've no clue about engine engineering.
