He was 2 tenths faster than webber not a huge amount
Formula 1 - 2013 Season
- Thread starter Dave Baumann
- Start date
He was 2 tenths faster than webber not a huge amount
http://www.f1zone.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7439
Lewis Hamilton: outqualified 2 times in a row (now 3 after Rosberg this year)
Sebastian Vettel: outqualified 4 times in a row (Webber)
Fernando Alonso: outqualified 4 times in a row (Trulli, Hamilton, Massa)
Kimi Räikkönen: outqualified 4 & 5 times in a row (Massa 4, Grosjean 5)
Jenson Button: outqualified 9 times in a row (Hamilton)
Cool graph of the big 3 qualifying over their careers - Ham blue, Vettel yellow, Alonso red. http://www.f1technical.net/forum/vi...sid=daba36d1093d9fc09714d011ec979884&start=15
Lewis Hamilton: outqualified 2 times in a row (now 3 after Rosberg this year)
Sebastian Vettel: outqualified 4 times in a row (Webber)
Fernando Alonso: outqualified 4 times in a row (Trulli, Hamilton, Massa)
Kimi Räikkönen: outqualified 4 & 5 times in a row (Massa 4, Grosjean 5)
Jenson Button: outqualified 9 times in a row (Hamilton)
Cool graph of the big 3 qualifying over their careers - Ham blue, Vettel yellow, Alonso red. http://www.f1technical.net/forum/vi...sid=daba36d1093d9fc09714d011ec979884&start=15
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If you believe Bourdais and Webber are better drivers than Alonso/Button/Kovalainen and Rosberg then perhaps.
Most people would interpret the graph as proof of Hamilton's qualifying prowess (based on team mate strength) followed by Alonso then Vettel though (I guess those two are a bit closer, Alonso has had some bad and some good team-mates), I reckon.
I'm just saying what the graph says
Hamilton is without doubt great qualifying driver, but as race driver he's not THAT good (obviously one of the best in F1, but not the best and fighting even to be in top 3. though i must admit that i'm not sure who the other 2 are in top 3 besides kimi, who i doubt anyone could claim not to be top 3 race driver in f1)
Hamilton is without doubt great qualifying driver, but as race driver he's not THAT good (obviously one of the best in F1, but not the best and fighting even to be in top 3. though i must admit that i'm not sure who the other 2 are in top 3 besides kimi, who i doubt anyone could claim not to be top 3 race driver in f1)
itsmydamnation
Veteran
no your not, data without context is useless, you want to remove context for no other reason then to "support" your view. Its also a very coarse graph and only counts one metric, so its not even that good to begin with before you tried to twist it.
The graph just gives a rough overview of how they've performed vs their team-mates in qualifying. Obviously you need to know who their team-mates have been in order to get an idea about it. You also need to consider the awful luck that Webber has in qualifying as well as racing.
Thinking about it more though, I'd say that Vettel has been better than Alonso in qualifying and the graph backs that up a bit. Webber isn't a bad qualifier, he's just a little bit slower/unluckier than Vettel, otherwise he'd be ahead of Kimi at least.
From the previous link, Before 2013 (no idea how accurate these are) -
Fernando Alonso outqualified his team-mates in 74% of all races
Nico Rosberg outqualified his team-mates in 72% of all races
Sebastian Vettel outqualified his team-mates in 72% of all races
Lewis Hamilton outqualified his team-mates in 72% of all races
Kimi Räikkonen outqualified his team-mates in 60% of all races
Mark Webber outqualified his team-mates in 53% of all races
Jenson Button outqualified his team-mates in 43% of all races
Felipe Massa outqualified his team-mates in 38% of all races
With Rosberg going backwards fast, the big 3 will be clear of anyone else. There's no question for me that over a lap Hamilton is clear best in F1 though. He beat Alonso in 2007 on his debut season, slapped Button down to the low 40%'s and now he's doing the same to Rosberg. If anyone can't accept that he's the best over a lap based on those snippets of information then they'll never be convinced.
Thinking about it more though, I'd say that Vettel has been better than Alonso in qualifying and the graph backs that up a bit. Webber isn't a bad qualifier, he's just a little bit slower/unluckier than Vettel, otherwise he'd be ahead of Kimi at least.
From the previous link, Before 2013 (no idea how accurate these are) -
Fernando Alonso outqualified his team-mates in 74% of all races
Nico Rosberg outqualified his team-mates in 72% of all races
Sebastian Vettel outqualified his team-mates in 72% of all races
Lewis Hamilton outqualified his team-mates in 72% of all races
Kimi Räikkonen outqualified his team-mates in 60% of all races
Mark Webber outqualified his team-mates in 53% of all races
Jenson Button outqualified his team-mates in 43% of all races
Felipe Massa outqualified his team-mates in 38% of all races
With Rosberg going backwards fast, the big 3 will be clear of anyone else. There's no question for me that over a lap Hamilton is clear best in F1 though. He beat Alonso in 2007 on his debut season, slapped Button down to the low 40%'s and now he's doing the same to Rosberg. If anyone can't accept that he's the best over a lap based on those snippets of information then they'll never be convinced.
Kimi on his way to Ferrari?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/23761323
Jordan was right about Hamilton going to Merc, a while before it happened.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/23761323
Jordan was right about Hamilton going to Merc, a while before it happened.
UniversalTruth
Veteran
Fortunately, those redbulls lost Kimi, now Ferrari have the big chance to take Kimi and dramatically improve their performance and chances for titles.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Does that mean Alonso would be out? I can't imagine either Kimi or Alonso being happy being the "second" driver.
Regards,
SB
Regards,
SB
Alonso out or both get equal treatment despite what Alonso was used to before, if the deal is real
UniversalTruth
Veteran
No
Where do you read this bullshit?
There is only one driver going to leave and he is Felipe.
No
Where do you read this bullshit?
There is only one driver going to leave and he is Felipe.
It wouldn't be the first time Alonso jumps teams unexpectedly
Felipe is gone for sure, though.
edit:
Oh, and Ferrari has never looked kindly at a driver criticizing the team in any way, and Alonso has done that this season already
UniversalTruth
Veteran
It wouldn't be the first time Alonso jumps teams unexpectedly
Yup, now the situation is kind of different and they need to change something after so many attempts to achieve it and always failed...
Of course, Ferrari need to build a competitive car, that's needed to be criticised over
Tha's why my hopes are exactly here for improvement- with Fernando and Kimi it should be easier to push.
And not to mention he has a contract with Ferrari till the end of 2016.
Lotus at the moment is kind of a sinking ship really - they have good talents even if they lost Allison to Ferrari already, but they're so deep in money trouble it's not even fun anymore, and not even the "most interesting driver PR-wise" is enough to get them big enough sponsors at the moment
Of course Santander would come wherever Alonso goes so that could save Lotus' ass
UniversalTruth
Veteran
Sky Sports Tony Jardine claims that Red Bull will make one final attempt to get Kimi to the team, and that the news that the negotiations didn't lead anywhere were thrown out on whatever purpose, and that based on his own sources Kimi's manager and Red Bull would sit down once more to negotiate at Spa.
One thing supporting this is the fact that earlier Red Bull said that they'll announce their next season drivers during summer break like always, but now they're backtracked on that and said that they'll announce it in September before Monza.
One thing supporting this is the fact that earlier Red Bull said that they'll announce their next season drivers during summer break like always, but now they're backtracked on that and said that they'll announce it in September before Monza.
UniversalTruth
Veteran
If so, then the most important for Kimi is to get equal treatment with vettel. I think this is what exactly stops them from already have signed...
In Ferrari I am 99% sure that will be a given
In Ferrari I am 99% sure that will be a given
