Formula 1 - 2013 Season

Has anyone mentioned the fact that Hamilton lost approximately 6 seconds when he pitted in the wrong garage? That would have meant he may have come out ahead of Vettel at one stage and Rosberg was closer to him.

Wasn't it more like 2 seconds? If that, he didn't really stop. McLaren should have removed his wheels and left him there imo :). That's driver error in any event, like locking up the brakes.

Personally, I am looking forward to see how Redbull are going to deal with Vettel. If he really doesn't want to follow team orders when they are against him and the team are not happy about that then they need to lay the law down.

I expect they will deal with it behind doors and we'll never hear of it again, unless he decides to disobey again and then you might see a more public shaming.
 
You can see all the bbc stuff if you use expat shield. Anyway as you can tell from the text, it was just a video of Vettel's and Webber's "disagreements" over the past 6 years. I had totally forgotten about the Toro Rosso one when Vettel was still there.
 

Yeah...

'Let's just say there were a lot of things going through my mind in the last 15 laps of the grand prix, lots of different reasons, not just from today but also from the past.

Probably thinking about all the times he had to follow team orders to allow a slower Vettel to pass him by for the sake of the driver's championship. How often he has had to play the dutiful teammate even when he was the faster driver.

And now thinking why should he continue to do so for such a selfish teammate who doesn't give a damn for his team or his teammate.

Regards,
SB
 

Oh boy, is Watson drunk? I mean seriously? Come on. There was a time in F1 where people boo-ed because of team order (remember this race in Austria?) and all world was against team order. And now? Vettel should be suspended? Because he did not follow team order? It's ok to hate Vettel (even with this british passion) but this is getting ridiculous!
 
Your missing the point,
if this was a worthy winner refusing to move over we wouldnt be mad, its the taking advantage of a team mate who had turned the engine down and was in coast home mode. If seb had got on the radio and said hell no tell mark i'm comming for him (or before the race even) it would be different. They had an agreement they would race up until the final pit stops

Imagine this scenario,
we have a heated argument and end up pointing guns at each other, but we calm down and agree to put our guns down and forget about it. so you put your gun down and I shoot you in the head.
 
Your missing the point,
if this was a worthy winner refusing to move over we wouldnt be mad, its the taking advantage of a team mate who had turned the engine down and was in coast home mode. If seb had got on the radio and said hell no tell mark i'm comming for him (or before the race even) it would be different. They had an agreement they would race up until the final pit stops

Imagine this scenario,
we have a heated argument and end up pointing guns at each other, but we calm down and agree to put our guns down and forget about it. so you put your gun down and I shoot you in the head.

Maybe you are right. If it really happens that way. But I do not believe in this scenario. Everything is watched in F1. Red Bull exactly new the pace of Vettel and that he did not put the engine down and they had enough time to inform Webber.

So, if on radio Vettel did say he agrees and than overtook Webber, that is really an asshole move, I agree.

If on the other hand they asked Vettel to stay behind Webber (they really don't have to ask Webber in this situation imo as he of course agrees to stay infront) and Vettel says no and overtakes Webber, I think there is nothing to discuss at this point and we should move on.

I am not sure if we have access to all the informations to exactly know what happens out there?
 
I don't believe that Webber was in any coast home mode during the battle. They were said to go into saving mode after the final stops and their battle started immediately when Webber came out of the pits. I believe that if Webber had lowered the settings, he cranked them right back up when he saw that Vettel is trying to get him. Vettel couldn't even pass him with DRS on the main straight so I have hard time believing his car would have had a serious power advantage.
 
I don't believe that Webber was in any coast home mode during the battle. They were said to go into saving mode after the final stops and their battle started immediately when Webber came out of the pits. I believe that if Webber had lowered the settings, he cranked them right back up when he saw that Vettel is trying to get him. Vettel couldn't even pass him with DRS on the main straight so I have hard time believing his car would have had a serious power advantage.

That is exactly what I think as well.
 
Yeah it seems likely that Webber could turn the engine up fast enough. One thing that he might have been pissed off over is he chose the harder tyre for the final stint while Vettel chose the medium.

If what RBR says is true - that the decision was made to give the win to the leader after the final pitstop - then Webber might have made the hard tyre decision based on that.
 
Curious how only Hamilton was told to save fuel (and then again to do some extra super saving mode) if they were both on the edge
(This is based on the extra radio commentary track, not just the main broadcast which has only small fraction of them)

Even using the extra radio commentary track, I wouldn't be sure that all team radio is actually in the public domain. We can't know for certain if not more had been said and what the pre-race agreement within the team was.

My view on the Hamilton/Rosberg situation is that Rosberg had extremely good pace - at times clearly quicker than Hamilton. Hamilton had a different race though - he was pushing differently due to being closer to the Redbulls, so had other issues to deal with. He also lost a bit of time in the pits when he turned into the wrong box.

Rosberg caught up to Hamilton after Vettel passed and attempted to pass Hamilton several times (I think it was about 3 times, though not all of them were shown by the TV coverage). Why Rosberg didn't attempt to pass Hamilton on the 2nd DRS zone, who knows. There's an indication that Hamilton drove clever and used this to pass him in the second DRS zone. Rosberg then after failing to get ahead, radioed the team and made a point that he could go quicker, to which Ross Brawn responded "Hamilton is driving to delta". Rosberg didn't give up and started to engage in team radio that perhaps didn't reflect too positive on the team which is why they told him to back off.

Was it right? Perhaps not, though it's hard to quantify what kind of fuel loads and internal team agreements were at play here. I think the team were equally nervous about their drivers continuing the passing games and then run into further problems with tyres and possibly fuel, so they made a decision to hold position. If Rosberg had been able to pass Hamilton prior to any radio chatter (by passing him on the 2nd DRS, instead of the first), perhaps this hadn't become an issue in the first place. Rosberg had his go, more than once, he tried, and failed (which is why IMO he radioed the team).

Not much more to say really.
 
I've been reading up a little about the Vettel/Webber situation and I am surprised by the amount of people who keep bringing up the Silverstone race in an attempt to show that Webber has been every bit as bad as Vettel in ignoring team-orders.

I think the situations aren't comparable. In Silverstone, both Vettel and Webber were racing. Due to strategies, perhaps even the fact that Webber is very good in Silverstone, he was quicker. He wanted to pass and Vettel was under no illusion that his position was under threat. Also, Vettel already had quite a huge lead in the championship by then and he felt it was only fair of the team to let him have a go (possibly already feeling that he is not given enough equal opportunity).

Yesterday's team order was perhaps a result of all the history between Webber and Vettel in that certain race scenarios were talked about before the race. It's hard to know what the exact rules are within the team, but last Sunday, Webber was under the impression his position wouldn't be attacked and Vettel used this in an unfair advantage to pass him.

It will be interesting to see how Vettel (or Redbull) will handle the situation.

If I were Redbull, or Vettel, I think I would recommend him to go public to say that he will not take part in the next race as a form of punishment on his free will (even if it's the teams decision). This might repair some of his damaged image. Don't really see that happening though.
 
Problem being that would hurt the team. His best bet to improve his image would be to just wave Webber through the next time he's leading. Not sure I see that happening either.
 
Skipping a race is an incredibly silly suggestion to put it mildly. The only thing Vettel should do is not whine if reverse happens or not crash either of them out if Webber tries to overtake him. If at the end of the season he can afford to give points to Webber, it would be a nice gesture, until then racing as usual.
 
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