itsmydamnation
Veteran
so that means you take an equally stupid and polar opposite position.
go read what i wrote i made no such comments nor did i actually take a position, i only commented on the team dynamic.
Formula 1 - 2013 Season
- Thread starter Dave Baumann
- Start date
so that means you take an equally stupid and polar opposite position.
go read what i wrote i made no such comments nor did i actually take a position, i only commented on the team dynamic.
The problem some people have is that by admitting Hamilton is a step above, you also have to admit that Alonso is. That's the issue here, it's not about Hamilton.
Hamilton is doing exactly what I said he'd do (to the guy who basically made Schumi look plodding), and he'd do it in any team except Ferrari. These 2 are a step above, and Vettel is slowly but surely getting there as well.
Hamilton is doing exactly what I said he'd do (to the guy who basically made Schumi look plodding), and he'd do it in any team except Ferrari. These 2 are a step above, and Vettel is slowly but surely getting there as well.
It was a discussion started to prove a point. But mostly all it has proven is that some will go to unprecedented levels to defend Hamilton's perceived position as the best driver.
I don't know that Seb being a dick will play out that much during the season. How often will team orders come into play during the year?The only way it will be a big deal is if they are consistently battling for 1-2, which would make the season a bust anyway.
Yeah, except that Aussie Grit will get the Shitty (end of the) Stick.
You made a general statement calling out people for getting on Hamilton. I was merely adding perspective. I didn't take an opposite position, but I'm getting that you're really not big on reading the conversations you choose to impose your opinion upon.
How hard is it to understand that only reason Hamilton finished first is team orders? Heck, even Lewis himself said it.
I'm not saying Rosberg is same level driver as Hamilton is, I'll just repeat what I said earlier.
There's few top tier drivers like Räikkönen, Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel, and probably couple others could be if the car allowed it (Bianchi is promising for example)
Then there's the next tier, while they're not probably exact same top tier, they're close enough to beat the top tier drivers even in equal or sometimes worse cars every now and then, sometimes more often and sometimes more rarely (like Button beating Hamilton even in season total points at least once)
In todays case, Webber probably could have done it (Vettel only passed him after Webber had turned the power down as Vettel was supposed to do, too, but didn't) and Rosberg definitely could have done it had the team allowed him to drive at the pace he had.
Kaotik, Hamilton was told by the team to push hard and that's why his fuel was low late in the race. He spent most of the race closely behind a Red Bull that is undoubtedly the class of the field by a distance.
He was there, in second for a while after undercutting Vettel. Yes it was unfortunate for Rosberg and I believe he should have been allowed to pass, but Mercedes compromised Hamilton's late race by telling him to push early.
And again, Ross Brawn stated that *both cars* were running low on fuel. Rosberg was behind because he qualified behind.
He was there, in second for a while after undercutting Vettel. Yes it was unfortunate for Rosberg and I believe he should have been allowed to pass, but Mercedes compromised Hamilton's late race by telling him to push early.
And again, Ross Brawn stated that *both cars* were running low on fuel. Rosberg was behind because he qualified behind.
Hamilton was told that he's low on fuel already at halfway through the race, and warned on the end lap(s) that he needs to use some "extreme fuel saving mode", Rosberg wasn't told either one so even if he was "low", he wasn't actually in any threat to run out of it unlike Hamilton.
Being told to push on first stint doesn't automatically mean that you need to burn almost all the fuel you have, if it was just following orders I doubt Hamilton would have said "I used too much fuel"
Last time I checked qualifying wasn't the part of the weekend that determines at which order you come to the finish line, we surely waste a lot of fuel and expensive parts on sundays if it is.
I think it shows that Vettel will no longer have a safe wingman - and Mark will fight for his own races.
He was very cryptic after the race before taking the podium - saying to Adrian Newey, "Multi 21" to which Mr Newey had no reply.
Kaotik - give it a rest now, we got your point. Thanks.
He was very cryptic after the race before taking the podium - saying to Adrian Newey, "Multi 21" to which Mr Newey had no reply.
Kaotik - give it a rest now, we got your point. Thanks.
When the fuck has Webber ever been a safe wingman?
I wonder if Red Bull will lay down the law to prevent this in future. Really they have to, you can't have your drivers doing that. Will we see the kind of deal that Coulthard and Hakkinen had, ie first corner wins? Can you imagine Vettel giving up the lead if that happened? Or Webber actually? 
This Red Bull is a second a lap faster, they are completely dominant I fear and appear to be on top of the tyres already. The pace of the Merc was a false dawn and the Ferrari isn't as fast as we thought it was either.
Really the only hope for an interesting fight is if McLaren continue to figure out the car. I got pelters for saying Button was the only driver capable of stopping Vettel this season but he put in a solid race today and is clearly ahead of Perez at the moment. I can't see any of the other cars improving enough to catch the Red Bulls.
This Red Bull is a second a lap faster, they are completely dominant I fear and appear to be on top of the tyres already. The pace of the Merc was a false dawn and the Ferrari isn't as fast as we thought it was either.
Really the only hope for an interesting fight is if McLaren continue to figure out the car. I got pelters for saying Button was the only driver capable of stopping Vettel this season but he put in a solid race today and is clearly ahead of Perez at the moment. I can't see any of the other cars improving enough to catch the Red Bulls.
I like Button but he has an inherent issue with his driving style - he needs to feel the grip to get the best out of the car.
He showed this in his WDC winning season with the Brawn F1 car and he showed it in 2012 with McLaren - this lack of consistency when he can't feel the grip means there are races where even in a competitive car he is midfield. So I have to disagree he is the best challenge to Vettel and Red Bull. Season is still young and I think Kimi and Lotus are a strong package and will have to see how the Mercedes develops.
He showed this in his WDC winning season with the Brawn F1 car and he showed it in 2012 with McLaren - this lack of consistency when he can't feel the grip means there are races where even in a competitive car he is midfield. So I have to disagree he is the best challenge to Vettel and Red Bull. Season is still young and I think Kimi and Lotus are a strong package and will have to see how the Mercedes develops.
Rurouni
Veteran
I think if Ham were running low on fuel because the team told him to push didn't have to translate to Ros not being allowed to pass. It will be Ham issue with the team. Because of this, this is becoming Ham, Ros, and the team issue. As for Vet, that was a dick move. If Web were responding to Vet, they would be in tyres trouble and compromise the team. As much as I dislike team order, the RB team order was the right call and Merc team order was wrong.
Kimi looked more like he was driving a rally car that race tbh. It really was an awful performance after such a fantastic one the week before.
The car also appeared to not have what it takes to overtake comfortably. Kimi made a meal of taking Hulk and Perez how many times...
I do agree that Button is an unlikely winner of the WDC and tbh I'm clutching at straws. I just believe McLaren are more likely to find the second+ they need compared to Merc or Ferrari finding the half-second+ they need.
The car also appeared to not have what it takes to overtake comfortably. Kimi made a meal of taking Hulk and Perez how many times...
I do agree that Button is an unlikely winner of the WDC and tbh I'm clutching at straws. I just believe McLaren are more likely to find the second+ they need compared to Merc or Ferrari finding the half-second+ they need.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
OMG, I can't stop being amazed at how much of a dick and a liar Vettel is...
How do you aggressively pass someone after getting orders not to do so and then claim it wasn't deliberate?
I guess if you're pathologically insane you could think. Well I won't deliberately turn down my engine until after I pass my teammate when he turns his engine down. There I didn't deliberately pass him. I just "happened" to pass him because my engine wasn't turned down and his was. Ugh...
Regards,
SB
How do you aggressively pass someone after getting orders not to do so and then claim it wasn't deliberate?
I guess if you're pathologically insane you could think. Well I won't deliberately turn down my engine until after I pass my teammate when he turns his engine down. There I didn't deliberately pass him. I just "happened" to pass him because my engine wasn't turned down and his was. Ugh...
Regards,
SB
Concerning redbull, can you blame him? his teammate is a narcissistic asshole.
