Formula 1 - 2013 Season
- Thread starter Dave Baumann
- Start date
And Vettel and Räikkönen and probably bunch of drivers that just have too slow cars to do it at the moment.
You really need to pull your head out of where ever it is, Alonso and Hamilton aren't some demigod drivers, they're top notch, yes, but there's at least 2 if not more drivers currently in F1 that are the same level
The "too slow cars" was referring to bunch of possible other drivers who could win without luck/car advantage, but we just don't know they can because they're not driving in good enough teams (yet) to make it even remotely possible.
Vettel and Räikkönen have fast enough cars to win, but don't need car advantage or luck to win.
At least Bahrain for Vettel (Red Bull wasn't the fastest at the start of the season outside qualifying, McLaren was faster package at first)
Räikkönen's win on Lotus is debatable if it was luck or not, Hamiltons car broke down so early in the race, and with the safety cars it's possible Kimi would have won even if Hamiltons car would have held through, their laptimes 'till Hamiltons accident were pretty much identical
edit:
You could pretty much ask the same thing about Hamilton, McLaren was fastest big part of the season
Vettel started on pole in Bahrain and basically led all the way? Webber started ahead of Button. You can't say his car wasn't the fastest, like it was in every race he won basically from start to finish.
There is no debate over Raikkonens luck in Abu Dhabi. He got a flyer of a start (helped by Webber having his usual pathetic start) and had no chance of beating Hamilton until he retired. Considering how much higher on the grid he was than normal, it was clearly a good track for the car too.
This is what DJ12 was talking about when he mentioned the stars and planets aligning with Button. Bahrain was Raikkonen's lucky day.
How many times did Alonso win in a bad car last season? How many times did Hamilton chase down Vettel last season after starting behind on the grid? This is why those 2 are great and the rest are only good.
There is no debate over Raikkonens luck in Abu Dhabi. He got a flyer of a start (helped by Webber having his usual pathetic start) and had no chance of beating Hamilton until he retired. Considering how much higher on the grid he was than normal, it was clearly a good track for the car too.
This is what DJ12 was talking about when he mentioned the stars and planets aligning with Button. Bahrain was Raikkonen's lucky day.
How many times did Alonso win in a bad car last season? How many times did Hamilton chase down Vettel last season after starting behind on the grid? This is why those 2 are great and the rest are only good.
Hamilton won twice last season starting behind Vettel, Vettel once starting behind Hamilton.
Hamilton won only from pole or 2nd position, Vettel won from pole, 2nd and 3rd position.
Alonsos car wasn't bad per se, it just wasn't as good as Red Bull or McLaren, it was depending on track faster, bit slower or on par compared to Lotus. Or if it rained it was fastest of them all.
If Vettel had always the fastest car and only knew how to drive from pole to win, how do you explain these, especially the last one?
All overtakes
1. Sebastian Vettel - 74 on-track overtakes
1. Mark Webber - 74
3. Felipe Massa - 65
4. Lewis Hamilton - 55
4. Romain Grosjean - 55
All overtakes, without backmarkers
Disgarding the overtakes on the teams of HRT, Marussia and Caterham
1. Sebastian Vettel - 51 on-track overtakes
2. Lewis Hamilton - 46
2. Mark Webber - 46
4. Felipe Massa - 45
5. Jenson Button - 41
All overtakes, without backmarkers, with equal tires
Disgarding the overtakes on the teams of HRT, Marussia and Caterham
Disgarding overtakes on cars with more than 5 lap older tires
1. Sebastian Vettel - 29 on-track overtakes
2. Jenson Button - 26
3. Mark Webber - 24
4. Kimi Räikkönen - 23
4. Felipe Massa - 23
All overtakes, only on 5 top teams
Counting only overtakes on the teams of Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren, Lotus and Mercedes
1. Sebastian Vettel - 28 on-track overtakes
2. Lewis Hamilton - 25
3. Jenson Button - 22
4. Kimi Räikkönen - 21
5. Felipe Massa - 16
All overtakes, only on 5 top teams, with equal tires
Counting only overtakes on the teams of Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren, Lotus and Mercedes
Disgarding overtakes on cars with more than 5 lap older tires
1. Sebastian Vettel - 17 on-track overtakes
2. Kimi Räikkönen - 16
3. Jenson Button - 14
4. Lewis Hamilton - 13
5. Felipe Massa - 12
Hamilton won only from pole or 2nd position, Vettel won from pole, 2nd and 3rd position.
Alonsos car wasn't bad per se, it just wasn't as good as Red Bull or McLaren, it was depending on track faster, bit slower or on par compared to Lotus. Or if it rained it was fastest of them all.
If Vettel had always the fastest car and only knew how to drive from pole to win, how do you explain these, especially the last one?
All overtakes
1. Sebastian Vettel - 74 on-track overtakes
1. Mark Webber - 74
3. Felipe Massa - 65
4. Lewis Hamilton - 55
4. Romain Grosjean - 55
All overtakes, without backmarkers
Disgarding the overtakes on the teams of HRT, Marussia and Caterham
1. Sebastian Vettel - 51 on-track overtakes
2. Lewis Hamilton - 46
2. Mark Webber - 46
4. Felipe Massa - 45
5. Jenson Button - 41
All overtakes, without backmarkers, with equal tires
Disgarding the overtakes on the teams of HRT, Marussia and Caterham
Disgarding overtakes on cars with more than 5 lap older tires
1. Sebastian Vettel - 29 on-track overtakes
2. Jenson Button - 26
3. Mark Webber - 24
4. Kimi Räikkönen - 23
4. Felipe Massa - 23
All overtakes, only on 5 top teams
Counting only overtakes on the teams of Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren, Lotus and Mercedes
1. Sebastian Vettel - 28 on-track overtakes
2. Lewis Hamilton - 25
3. Jenson Button - 22
4. Kimi Räikkönen - 21
5. Felipe Massa - 16
All overtakes, only on 5 top teams, with equal tires
Counting only overtakes on the teams of Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren, Lotus and Mercedes
Disgarding overtakes on cars with more than 5 lap older tires
1. Sebastian Vettel - 17 on-track overtakes
2. Kimi Räikkönen - 16
3. Jenson Button - 14
4. Lewis Hamilton - 13
5. Felipe Massa - 12
I think he was referring to the year Kimi won the championship, and Kimi passed Massa during pitstops for championship win.
Hamilton retired while in the lead. He passed Vettel in both wins coming from behind.
If it rained Alonso was fastest of them all, that was the difference.
I saw that before and to me it's complete bullshit. Obviously it isn't including the first lap because there is simply no way Alonso wouldn't be in it considering on average he gained 3-4 places on the first lap in near every race.
Edit: jimbo your quote of "gifting him the race" did the him refer to kimi ?
your ending the sentence with " (and even then only because McLaren's appeal failed)." lead me to believe your were talking about massa vs hamilton ?
edit: Kaotik ninja edited me
Yep I meant Massa vs Raikkonen.
Don't get me wrong though, Hamilton was lucky as shit in Brazil in 2008 and drove a pathetic race and I felt sorry for Massa tbh.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21283726
Apparently Button reckons it's the best McLaren car he's been in. That sounds ominous for the rest tbh.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21283725
Apparently Button reckons it's the best McLaren car he's been in. That sounds ominous for the rest tbh.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21283725
