Formula 1 - 2008 Season
- Thread starter Dave Baumann
- Start date
I think we can safely say Mclaren will not win the appeal 
The problem here is that the rule is not clear cut and allows the FIA to make judgements as they see fit rather than it being written in stone.
Previously if a driver gained advantage from a (common) mistake in a chicane then they would drop back behind or be penalised. All seemed fine with this, but now that has happened and now it seems that there is a new rule, obviously unwritten, that you must be a certain distance behind, or have to wait a certain time, or have to wait a corner. Or 2, or 3.....
Later on in the race Kimi went off the track and used the tarmac at the side of the track to his advantage before coming back on and then getting in front of Hamilton when the Williams baulked Lewis. Obviously he crashed out but if he had won then I doubt many people would say he deserved a penalty which as also seems to fit under that FIA rule.
It was a great race and hats off to all the drivers who did earn their money that day.
The problem here is that the rule is not clear cut and allows the FIA to make judgements as they see fit rather than it being written in stone.
Previously if a driver gained advantage from a (common) mistake in a chicane then they would drop back behind or be penalised. All seemed fine with this, but now that has happened and now it seems that there is a new rule, obviously unwritten, that you must be a certain distance behind, or have to wait a certain time, or have to wait a corner. Or 2, or 3.....
Later on in the race Kimi went off the track and used the tarmac at the side of the track to his advantage before coming back on and then getting in front of Hamilton when the Williams baulked Lewis. Obviously he crashed out but if he had won then I doubt many people would say he deserved a penalty which as also seems to fit under that FIA rule.
It was a great race and hats off to all the drivers who did earn their money that day.
pocketmoon66
Newcomer
Can you please explain what you mean by 'normalise the situation'? It's an F1 race for goodness sake!
If Hamilton had sat behind Kimi for the rest of the race only to pass him on the final corner you'd no doubt still be calling for a penalty.
It means that you end up being really behind the driver, not right next to him in perfect attack position, after you get there, you can try to move back up to attack / overtake. Hamilton never got there.
And for those calling how F in FIA stands for Ferrari etc, it's not that long since Alonso got past Klien in similar situation, he let Klien past him like he should but immediately re-overtook him like Hamilton did now, never really going behind Klien like he should, he was then told that either he lets Klien past him again, or he will face a penalty for what he did.
Oh, please!
Hamilton was in front of Raikkonen after the bus stop chikane on Raikkonen's left hand side. He then fell back, *really behind* Raikkonen and overtook him on Raikkonen's right hand side, ending up, literally, driving circles around Raikkonen.
Cheers
He was trying to overtake, Räikkönen had the right to keep his driving lane and there was no room for Hamilton there > Failed overtaking attempt.
On the straight then, Räikkönen obviously had some traction problems or such, the erratic movements of the car show them to even the blind ones. Hamilton was, before these erratic moves, in perfect attack position, not properly behind Räikkönen.
Penalty was justified, and was done just like it had been done before, most recent being probably Alonso-Klien incident.
Here's what Niki Lauda (who I imagine knows a thing or two about F1 racing) had to say on the decision:
Some background info on the decision:
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns20741.html
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns20741.html
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
You fit the picture perfect of people that lack being able to comprihand different situations. The pit incident wasnt dangers (atleast not anymore dangerous that being involved in motorsport is) and happend many times before.
DuckThor Evil
Legend
In my opinion Hamilton did deserve to get the penalty, I think he got unfair advantage by cutting the chicane, however I think he also deserved the victory, when he once again proved to be masterful driver in hard conditions. I think it's fairly certain that he would have overtook Kimi during the final lap even without the incident.
It is also possible though that the Mclaren car is more suitable for those conditions, but I was still impressed when I saw Hamilton immediately take the chance when the opportunity rose. Some other drivers might have not pushed as hard till the end in similar situation before the rain, when the gap was hardly diminishing, but Hamilton pushed all the way probably knowing that had the rain not come, he would have been second.
It is also possible though that the Mclaren car is more suitable for those conditions, but I was still impressed when I saw Hamilton immediately take the chance when the opportunity rose. Some other drivers might have not pushed as hard till the end in similar situation before the rain, when the gap was hardly diminishing, but Hamilton pushed all the way probably knowing that had the rain not come, he would have been second.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6ovii_wwwformulamagcom-hamiltonkimi_sport
Good onboard video, first hamilton before overtake then räikkönen after it.
shows how much harder the F2008 is to drive on those conditions, and what wasn't visible in earlier videos - hamilton drove wide the same corner in which räikkönen took the whole corner outside the track
also, it shows that hamilton didn't even let the pedal up a bit to let räikkönen pass like he should have
aaand that apparently the wheel did blow before crash, at least it's the only explanation i can figure out for the sudden revving up just before the car starts going left & crash (the car had been on stead acceleration on steady surface outside the track and suddenly just enginer revs up like mad)
Good onboard video, first hamilton before overtake then räikkönen after it.
shows how much harder the F2008 is to drive on those conditions, and what wasn't visible in earlier videos - hamilton drove wide the same corner in which räikkönen took the whole corner outside the track
also, it shows that hamilton didn't even let the pedal up a bit to let räikkönen pass like he should have
aaand that apparently the wheel did blow before crash, at least it's the only explanation i can figure out for the sudden revving up just before the car starts going left & crash (the car had been on stead acceleration on steady surface outside the track and suddenly just enginer revs up like mad)
I agree. From this video I think it is right to give him a penalty. (Though I'm not sure I like how it is given after the race)
While I'm a Kimi "fan" most of the time, it looks like a driver error to me. Sounds like he gets too hard on the gas, gets no grip and looses the rear. He was clearly not the Iceman I'd like him to be in that situation. Such a shame after such a great race for him.
mclaren said they had data showing lewis braked and gave up 6km/h to let kimi back in front
But surely the stewards judged it to be unsafe. If Hamilton gets a drive-through for cutting a chicane and overtaking, Massa should get one too for being unsafe.
pocketmoon66
Newcomer
It shows absolutely awesome driving from Lewis in an awesome car
And, crucially, show just how far behind Kimi he slotted in. The TV footage is from the front and makes it appear like he pulled in right up kimi's exhaust. This video shows a car length between them.
pocketmoon66
Newcomer
So HTF did Kimi find the extra grip and power to pull a car length in front of Lewis over less that the length of the straight ?
Don't argue with the Hamilton haters, they will never agree however idiotic it makes them look.
Question is, if Hamilton didn't lift off how in the blue hell did Kimi pass him as Hamilton was infront of him already and apparently "gained an advantage" cutting the chicane on top of that.
Maybe the FIA are trying to keep Hamilton down so the sport doesn't become a tad more boring like it did when we all knew Schumacher was going to win.
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
Oh go away. Watch that video posted. What you see is that hamilton was besides kimi most of the time. Than he lifted just a second to get behind kimi (he obviously had to do atleast that) but he did it in such a way he got right into his slipstream and in the right position to overtake. Now this obviously isnt really what they intended with the rule that you have to give a position back. Everytime I have seen something like this happen drivers are pretty generous with the amount of space they give back, often as much that I wonder if they shouldnt be giving less, Hamilton did the opposite and barely let kimi pass.
Hamilton may compare himself with Schumacher, his fanboys might do so too but lets just wait for another 15 years to see how much he really is like schumacher oke? because as for now all he did was win with one of the 4 fastest cars on the grid. There are half a dozen of drivers on the grid that can do exactly the same. If there is one goldenboy I'd rather put my money on Vettel (or Kubica because he's just a cool guy). Being fast in a fast car isnt that hard, being really fast in a Torro Rosso is. Besides the kid isnt some cocky ''I are the best'' basterd like Hamilton is.
Hamilton may compare himself with Schumacher, his fanboys might do so too but lets just wait for another 15 years to see how much he really is like schumacher oke? because as for now all he did was win with one of the 4 fastest cars on the grid. There are half a dozen of drivers on the grid that can do exactly the same. If there is one goldenboy I'd rather put my money on Vettel (or Kubica because he's just a cool guy). Being fast in a fast car isnt that hard, being really fast in a Torro Rosso is. Besides the kid isnt some cocky ''I are the best'' basterd like Hamilton is.
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