Fight Night PS3 Screens

WOW! There is something REALLY REALLY wrong with the crowd and background graphics. I hope this isn't what the game will look like.......having 2d sprites is unforgivable. I'm going to have to see if Madden on the PS3 is using 3d or 2d crowds.

There are sreens going around of the PS3 version that have BOTH 2d and 3d crowds, the screens and footage with the 2d crowd could just be an early build.
 
ShootMyMonkey what would raycasting do to fix this problem?
Essentially the fact that you're sampling and not directly rasterizing. If a poly is too small or too skinny to rasterize, you have to sample it, and a ray that you cast is essentially a sample. Granted, rasterizing with supersampling can have that effect too, but that's no less costly and it really only raises the limits on how small is "too small to rasterize" as all you're really doing is raising the resolution. A raycast doesn't necessarily have to be directed by screenspace, so you can just cast it to tiny geometry and see which pixel(s) are intersected and affect them accordingly. Doing this is more of an example of a hybrid rasterizing/raytracing kind of thing since you can still do immediate fill stuff, but the only real difference is that you're accumulating samples which affect pixels (though this by itself only works if all geometry is tiny). Breaking down all source geometry into subpixel size and then sampling and shading those is essentially REYES.
 
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They have mearly ported the same game to PS3 so, what exactly is your point?

uh, no.

they have worked on imporving the quality to take advantage of the next gen features (available on both machines) extensively in this version.

It is essentially FN3.5
 
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.having 2d sprites is unforgivable. I'm going to have to see if Madden on the PS3 is using 3d or 2d crowds.

I don't know if this game uses sprites or not but:

Using 2D sprites for background characters such as sports titles and racing games is an effective way to prioritize resources. Sprites take very little in terms of resources. Just some memory, and with proper paletisization (sp?) you can save more on memory by swapping colors to make it appear there is a greater veriety in sprite individuals.

If a dev house were to model the background spectators, they would have to remove detail elsewhere. The edges would be more polygonal and there would be less overall detail/framerate. That is the two boxers in the center of the ring. The game focuses on the two boxers so it's a smart thing to do to use sprites on the outside, since the outside isn't usually where players concentrate on. Using sprites is a smart thing to do if it's done properly. Sometimes the sprites will look odd if viewed closely but if we want to achieve next-gen graphics around the action (center of the ring) then you have to make compromises.

It makes perfect sense.
 
I don't know if this game uses sprites or not but:

Using 2D sprites for background characters such as sports titles and racing games is an effective way to prioritize resources. Sprites take very little in terms of resources. Just some memory, and with proper paletisization (sp?) you can save more on memory by swapping colors to make it appear there is a greater veriety in sprite individuals.

If a dev house were to model the background spectators, they would have to remove detail elsewhere. The edges would be more polygonal and there would be less overall detail/framerate. That is the two boxers in the center of the ring. The game focuses on the two boxers so it's a smart thing to do to use sprites on the outside, since the outside isn't usually where players concentrate on. Using sprites is a smart thing to do if it's done properly. Sometimes the sprites will look odd if viewed closely but if we want to achieve next-gen graphics around the action (center of the ring) then you have to make compromises.

It makes perfect sense.
Depends. Years ago (32-bit era) we didnt even mind having flat surfaces with crowd textures pasted on them in racing games.

Years ago we didnt mind having a polygon looking ball in a football stadium

Years ago we didnt mind having pixelated sprites as enemies

Years ago we didnt mind playing a 25fps racing game like GT1.

But standards change. 2D crowd were ok last generation if that ment better looking graphics else were. So were blurry textures in some areas if that ment detailed textures in other areas. Today 2D crowd is considered as a thing of the past. A PS2, GC, XBOX thing.
We expect the limitations of past generation not to exist in the next. Just as we cant tolerate textures pasted on flat surfaces to represent spectators on a PS2/GC/XBOX game but was perfectly fine on a PS1/Saturn/N64 game.
 
A lot of people will expect huge leaps in every department of a game's graphics. While this is true for certain departments, others can just be improved on while keepign the same basic fundamentals. Today's sprites look a hell of a lot better than yesteryears'. ;)

Some nextgen games will start to use more and more real 3d models for spectators, others less so. It will all depend on how comfortable the team is with throwing away resources on something that is rarely looked at with much detail. Some things come in small steps, others in leaps and bounds. We're seeing leaps and bounds in physics and shader power, but other things are slower to evolve with every gen. We might expect too much out of nextgen at first, but in the end it's still a video game, and devs still work very hard to cut corners and "fake" certain elements when they can so that they can concentrate the detail up front.

So yes, we are seeing things progress very rapidly, but it doesn't always make sense to just throw away resources when you can have an alternative that looks almost as good to 80% of players.

just my two cents
 
A lot of people will expect huge leaps in every department of a game's graphics. While this is true for certain departments, others can just be improved on while keepign the same basic fundamentals. Today's sprites look a hell of a lot better than yesteryears'. ;)

Some nextgen games will start to use more and more real 3d models for spectators, others less so. It will all depend on how comfortable the team is with throwing away resources on something that is rarely looked at with much detail. Some things come in small steps, others in leaps and bounds. We're seeing leaps and bounds in physics and shader power, but other things are slower to evolve with every gen. We might expect too much out of nextgen at first, but in the end it's still a video game, and devs still work very hard to cut corners and "fake" certain elements when they can so that they can concentrate the detail up front.

So yes, we are seeing things progress very rapidly, but it doesn't always make sense to just throw away resources when you can have an alternative that looks almost as good to 80% of players.

just my two cents
Well I agree :p
But atleast they shouldnt over do it with the 2D spectators. In this pic for example that 2D sprites makes your eyes pop out
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p177/blubbernalgas/ps3_fight-night-round-3_1163889686.jpg
The difference between what you see on stage and whats on the backround is HUGE and just doesnt stick up well. And the sprites are ugly even for a PS2 game. And taking into consideration that 3D spectators were so well made on the 360 I dont think PS3's visual quality would have been sucrificed if they used the same spectators
 
A lot of people will expect huge leaps in every department of a game's graphics. While this is true for certain departments, others can just be improved on while keepign the same basic fundamentals. Today's sprites look a hell of a lot better than yesteryears'. ;)

Some nextgen games will start to use more and more real 3d models for spectators, others less so. It will all depend on how comfortable the team is with throwing away resources on something that is rarely looked at with much detail. Some things come in small steps, others in leaps and bounds. We're seeing leaps and bounds in physics and shader power, but other things are slower to evolve with every gen. We might expect too much out of nextgen at first, but in the end it's still a video game, and devs still work very hard to cut corners and "fake" certain elements when they can so that they can concentrate the detail up front.

So yes, we are seeing things progress very rapidly, but it doesn't always make sense to just throw away resources when you can have an alternative that looks almost as good to 80% of players.

just my two cents
Agree 100%

If the dev's ran a poll that said "3D crowd or more detailed fighters?", I'm pretty sure most would vote the latter. It'll be nice to have a 3D crowd, but if it means sacrificing some creative angle because of it, then I'm happy to go without. In saying that, the crowds on that video is unacceptable in this gen!
 
oooh, gosh. for that screenshot in particular, I agree they could be better. its sometimes extremelly difficult to achieve such a result when youre nearly busting in memory elsewhere, but in this case I agree they could be higher res. the spectators in the trailer mentioend earlier certainly seemed so.
 
PS3 is looking worse and worse. I don't know why anyone here is defending 2d crowds. I don't know if the x360 FN3 has them or not (about to check) but that is unacceptable this generation. With the massive amounts of polygon pushing power available (500M-250M and that 500M x360 figure is with non-trivial shaders), we should be able to push 2-3M poly's a frame at 60fps (8.3M max for x360, 4.15 for PS3), and I doubt that crowd would need to take more than 100-200k total/frame (I doubt there would ever be more than a couple thousand spectators on screen at a time + LOD). Maybe memory managment is giving them issues?

edit: Scratch that, I think 1000 full LOD spectators max/frame would be double/3x normal load. Watching a few of the X360 videos, I honestly doubt that I see more than 500 spectators a frame. Allowing 200k poly's for the spectators would give us 2000 polys/spectator s up close, which is pretty nice, and for those in the grandstands, lets say LOD takes them down to 200-300, and that would be enough to give a fairly realistic movement for the crowd. I doubt the fighters + ring + stadium pushes more than 1.5M polys (I'd say about 80k polys for x360 boxers)
 
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X360 has 3d crouds btw.

1138992636.jpg


Fight-Night-Round-3
 
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X360 has 3d crouds btw.

1138992636.jpg


Fight-Night-Round-3

That arena on the PS3 is also fully modelled in 3d, just like the 360 version.

If making the fighters look far more realistic and them having far more animation (eg muscles visibly tensing, tendons moving etc.etc.) is at the cost of "3d" crowds, then EA should be commended.

Take away from an area which isn't really important (apart from in the minds of people looking to score "points") and use the resources on something important that everyone will notice and be impressed with.
 
If making the fighters look far more realistic and them having far more animation (eg muscles visibly tensing, tendons moving etc.etc.) is at the cost of "3d" crowds, then EA should be commended.

Take away from an area which isn't really important (apart from in the minds of people looking to score "points") and use the resources on something important that everyone will notice and be impressed with.
I don't know, dude. I mean, how can you say that muscles visibly tensing and tendons moving isn't more important than having a nice crowd? Honestly, unless the crowd is somewhat interactive, as in wrestling games, I really don't care. I'd rather have more realistic fighters than a realistic crowd.

I don't know. Maybe the guys at EA feel the same way I do, or maybe this isn't the *final* version maybe? Either way, I'll take fighter details over non-interactive crowd!
 
You basically agree with what I said, I could not careless about the crowd as long as the improvements in the other areas are worth it.

In the case I Fight Night, I think they are.
 
That arena on the PS3 is also fully modelled in 3d, just like the 360 version.

If making the fighters look far more realistic and them having far more animation (eg muscles visibly tensing, tendons moving etc.etc.) is at the cost of "3d" crowds, then EA should be commended.

Take away from an area which isn't really important (apart from in the minds of people looking to score "points") and use the resources on something important that everyone will notice and be impressed with.

I was just showing a picture to prove that the X360 has 3d crouds. On all arenas. I agree that i would rather have improved fighters over 3d crouds (unless they can get the crouds to look a hundred times better than what they do right now)
 
You basically agree with what I said, I could not careless about the crowd as long as the improvements in the other areas are worth it.

In the case I Fight Night, I think they are.


See here is the problem. They did not add ENOUGH detail to the fighters to make the crowd look that bad. If they add something they should not be taking away something else. You will notice crappy 2d cutout crowds - like in that really awful ss recently posted - more than you will, say, 2 popping veins. At least the latter will not make the experience as immersive as a nice arena.

I don't care that much about the crowd either, but there are limits of tolerance

I'm not asking for them to be as detailed as the main fighters. I'm asking for them to resemble people, not space invaders.
 
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