Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion Archive [2010]

[Toaddio]

Considering how much I paid to read the article, I'm OK with it.

 

[Quaz51]

But I would love to read an update on the aliasing settings and how the AA method wors, accounting for the observations of Quaz51/upsilandre.

i contacted Richard Leadbetter. probably update soon

For instance, I don't understand why this TSAA similar to SSAA as Quaz suggests? At a first moment, this sounds impossible?!

the effect it's like SSAA but it's not SSAA . GT5 TAA create flikering and is effective only on static context, not when camera move (but don't create blur in moving like DMC4 TAA because no frame blend in TAA GT5, just use retinal persistence)

 

[mech]

Oh wow, I had no idea that grandmaster was Richard Leadbetter, that name brought back huuuuuge memories from UK gaming magazines of the early 90s... that's awesome.

 

[(((interference)))]

Yeah, the article was disappointing - he didn't seem to realise that the full damage modelling only kicks in at higher levels, even Lens of Truth picked up on that!

Also he says that the in game models use 100,000 polygons - has that number been substantiated anywhere?

 

[Billy Idol]

Yeah, the article was disappointing - he didn't seem to realise that the full damage modelling only kicks in at higher levels, even Lens of Truth picked up on that!

Also he says that the in game models use 100,000 polygons - has that number been substantiated anywhere?

No, it was not dissapointing!

@Quaz: thanks for the clarification! I am looking forward to read the update about AA in DF article!

EDIT: just found out that grandmaster already has updated the DF article with damage+AA infos...

 

[Alkohallick]

I know some folks used this webgame to test reaction speed.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/sleep/sheep/reaction_version5.swf

My average time was 0.2932 secs

Sheep 1: 0.283
Sheep 2: 0.233
Sheep 3: 0.233
Sheep 4: 0.267
Sheep 5 0.450

 

[Billy Idol]

My average time was 0.2932 secs

Sheep 1: 0.283
Sheep 2: 0.233
Sheep 3: 0.233
Sheep 4: 0.267
Sheep 5 0.450

my average (in the third try) was 0.2138

Sheep 1: 0.118
Sheep 2: 0.235
Sheep 3: 0.215
Sheep 4: 0.218
Sheep 5: 0.283

so what does this prove? what was the point...it seems that 200-300 ms is the best I can get, who cares for 60Hz gaming?!?

 

[bkilian]

I was just impressed at the GT4/GT5 comparison, just shows how impressive the PS2 architecture was. Racing games not my thing, but GT5 is pretty at least.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

so what does this prove? what was the point...it seems that 200-300 ms is the best I can get, who cares for 60Hz gaming?!?

Think about that argument in the other direction : Does 5 frames a second, 200ms per frame, make for a good game experience? As I've explained earlier, gaming isn't just about reactions, but determining actions in advance and responded to input and feedback to get timing right.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

so what does this prove? what was the point...it seems that 200-300 ms is the best I can get, who cares for 60Hz gaming?!?

The point is to add up all these small delays.

Game logic decides about something - 1 frame
rendering - another frame
latency of your TV screen - some more miliseconds
your own reaction time - 250-300 miliseconds
controller's own latency - some more miliseconds

And so on... now there are values that you can't improve, like the reaction time, the TV's and controller's latencies, so you really have to keep the rest as low as possible. Even an OK game is above 100ms so you can easily wait for almost half a second to get feedback from your actions.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Even an OK game is above 100ms so you can easily wait for almost half a second to get feedback from your actions.

Well, based on your illustrative figures, sure, but we all know as gamers that most of the time it's nothing like half a second between pressing the shoot or jump button and our actions appearing on screen!

 

[(((interference)))]

my average (in the third try) was 0.2138

Sheep 1: 0.118
Sheep 2: 0.235
Sheep 3: 0.215
Sheep 4: 0.218
Sheep 5: 0.283

so what does this prove? what was the point...it seems that 200-300 ms is the best I can get, who cares for 60Hz gaming?!?

I got 0.206 quite disappointing - but I am sleepy, maybe I should try it when i'm alert.

Mean visual reaction time is apparently 190 ms and I would think with the amount of shooters I play I'd be better than that!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_chronometry

But perhaps display lag (on my LCD monitor) doesn't help.

 

[djskribbles]

I got 0.22x (accidentally closed it) on my second try. I'm a little sleepy as well.

edit: just got 0.1864 avg
0.166
0.166
0.217
0.217
0.166

Sorry, this is getting a little OT.

 

[KKRT]

Anyone knows how Grandmaster changed camera view in replay mode/replay theatre?
Because i cant switch from fixed camera to bumper view like he did in comparison videos.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-gran-turismo-5-tech-analysis?page=3

---edit---
Ok i know what was wrong. You just cant change view in online replays, but You can in single player ones ;\

BTW damage from yesterday's online race.
http://strony.aster.pl/kakarotto/GT5_PM/1.jpg
http://strony.aster.pl/kakarotto/GT5_PM/2.jpg
http://strony.aster.pl/kakarotto/GT5_PM/4.jpg

 

[ct03]

I got 0.206 quite disappointing - but I am sleepy, maybe I should try it when i'm alert.

Mean visual reaction time is apparently 190 ms and I would think with the amount of shooters I play I'd be better than that!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_chronometry

But perhaps display lag (on my LCD monitor) doesn't help.

I believe the reaction time in this sheep game is slightly slower because the stationary sheep move a little bit themselves. This causes a bit of a delay between your seeing something move and realizing that it is indeed an escaping sheep.

A visual reaction test that has a simple light go on should yield much faster reaction times.

 

[Alucardx23]

@ Grandmaster

Could you please tell me if you used the PS3 controller or ha racing wheel to play GT5, thanks in advance. :smile:

 

[I.S.T.]

My record for the sheep is:

Sheep 1 0.334

Sheep 2 0.266

Sheep 3 0.334

Sheep 4 0.333

Sheep 5 0.234

Damn slow reflexes. ._.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

The sheep thing seems to have predetermined value sets, atleast I got 0.219 for all five sheeps...
That was my best average from multiple tries.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The sheep thing seems to have predetermined value sets, atleast I got 0.219 for all five sheeps...
That was my best average from multiple tries.

It'll be limited to whatever rate Flash polls in the input. 0.219 ms will 13 frames. I little amount of variance will be introduced via the code, background tasks perhaps, etc. But basically you're being measured in 1/60ths of a second.

 

[Alucardx23]

I managed to get it down to 0.1768.

Sheep 1 0.217

Sheep 2 0.216

Sheep 3 0.167

Sheep 4 0.284

Sheep 5 0.000