Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion Archive [2010]

[Neb]

http://www.videogameszone.de/Killzo...es-Video-aus-dem-Beta-Test-erschienen-795124/

KZ3 beta screens, looks pretty clean with MLAA so far.

But blurry to. Resembles the look of Wide Tent MSAA mode bluriness with ATI cards.

Those new techniques never cease to impress me

It's cheap and pretty good, actually it's so cheap that upcoming improved implementations may end basically free on any modern GPUs.
Actually I don't know how good it fares but AMD implementation in HD68xx serie of MLAA is already "almost" free

And that at 1920x1080 res.

 

[Lucid_Dreamer]

Those new techniques never cease to impress me

It's cheap and pretty good, actually it's so cheap that upcoming improved implementations may end basically free on any modern GPUs.
Actually I don't know how good it fares but AMD implementation in HD68xx serie of MLAA is already "almost" free

I wonder what the differences are between the MLAA technique used there and the one used in GOW3. I remember the dev said they went beyond the standard MLAA technique.

 

[dragonelite]

Shame that it ruins the hub hopefully devs do something about it.
Like doing mlaa before drawing the HUD.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I wonder what the differences are between the MLAA technique used there and the one used in GOW3. I remember the dev said they went beyond the standard MLAA technique.

It's a different take on the MLAA methods used on PS3 so far. It's explained in the AA thread here.

 

[liolio]

A nice gif imho that show off AMD take on MLAA

 

[patsu]

YES ! Are they combining MLAA and other AAs now ? Will it fudge the image/video somehow ?

 

[brain_stew]

YES ! Are they combining MLAA and other AAs now ? Will it fudge the image/video somehow ?

AMD's solution allows you to do this, yes, though I've not seen any images on the web demonstrating it yet.

 

[corduroygt]

I haven't seen any post-process AA effect that looks as good as the GOW3 implementation yet, and GOW3 AA is still far from perfect.

 

[NeoTechni]

Well perfect would be rendering at 4k and downscaling
You cant have perfect for everyone.

 

[Neb]

Well perfect would be rendering at 4k and downscaling
You cant have perfect for everyone.

GOW3 still falls of the mark quite a bit but sure the background DOF and artwork contrast/colors makes IQ look very clean with the MLAA. KZ3 though looked quite messy until later shots where they seem to introduce some blur filter or similar. It's hit or miss depeding on game detail, colors,art and design.

Anyway MLAA + MSAA on the roll for ATI cards with MLAA being almost perfomance penalty free at high resolutions. That would be second to best which is SSAA. Would be interesting to see the take on 360 and MLAA from devs.

That said MLAA is no magic bullet.


Anyway some comparision shots from '3D Center Forum' with no AA, MLAA with ATI GPU.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1485920&postcount=769

 

[nightshade]

Wouldn't using MSAA make it hard for MLAA to do proper edge detection ?
Even more so when you bump up the resolution.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

You only need apply MLAA on high-contrast edges. If MSAA results in a high-contrast edge, such as in HDR, then MLAA will apply, and if MSAA does a job of reducing aliasing enough, you won't need to apply MLAA so it doesn't matter that it's not detected.

 

[Billy Idol]

GOW3 still falls of the mark quite a bit but sure the background DOF and artwork contrast/colors makes IQ look very clean with the MLAA. KZ3 though looked quite messy until later shots where they seem to introduce some blur filter or similar. It's hit or miss depeding on game detail, colors,art and design.

Anyway MLAA + MSAA on the roll for ATI cards with MLAA being almost perfomance penalty free at high resolutions. That would be second to best which is SSAA. Would be interesting to see the take on 360 and MLAA from devs.

That said MLAA is no magic bullet.


Anyway some comparision shots from '3D Center Forum' with no AA, MLAA with ATI GPU.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1485920&postcount=769

Which blur filter in KZ3 do you refer to?
Looks rather clean and crisp to me - of coarse if you compare it to other console games on the market only and not to high end PC shots.

There is a rather strong grain filter implemented, even in the demo I have played at gamescom long ago. And this is seen in the MP pics as well...probably what you are refering to??

 

[nightshade]

I don't see any blur in the KZ3 shots, however there exists a grain filter.

 

[Neb]

Which blur filter in KZ3 do you refer to?
Looks rather clean and crisp to me - of coarse if you compare it to other console games on the market only and not to high end PC shots.

Has this soft bluriness allover the image earlier promo shots did not though shader aliasing was more present in promos. Smudge factor looks fairly similar to for example MW2 with Wide Tent vs no Wide Tent @ any res.

 

[Neb]

Wouldn't using MSAA make it hard for MLAA to do proper edge detection ?
Even more so when you bump up the resolution.

MLAA would be to smooth edges not having MSAA applied aswell as cleaning up part of shader aliasing and transparencies (if TSAA is not supported).

Edit: What Shifty said.

 

[assurdum]

GOW3 still falls of the mark quite a bit but sure the background DOF and artwork contrast/colors makes IQ look very clean with the MLAA. KZ3 though looked quite messy until later shots where they seem to introduce some blur filter or similar. It's hit or miss depeding on game detail, colors,art and design.

Anyway MLAA + MSAA on the roll for ATI cards with MLAA being almost perfomance penalty free at high resolutions. That would be second to best which is SSAA. Would be interesting to see the take on 360 and MLAA from devs.

That said MLAA is no magic bullet.


Anyway some comparision shots from '3D Center Forum' with no AA, MLAA with ATI GPU.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1485920&postcount=769

The MLAA work perfectly even in kz3 beta and LBP 2. Quite messy? Are you joking? The 2xmsaa is even worse in the long distance or in the high contrast...

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The MLAA work perfectly even in kz3 beta and LBP 2

It's not perfect in LBP2. In many cases it looks real good, but that are times like looking at a wall of sequencer blocks that it artifacts heavily, causing edge..shimmering, where aliased edges would strobe.

 

[assurdum]

It's not perfect in LBP2. In many cases it looks real good, but that are times like looking at a wall of sequencer blocks that it artifacts heavily, causing edge..shimmering, where aliased edges would strobe.

Of course, It has some limits, but I think it's acceptable after all...

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I think the big problem is still don't capture the temporal aliasing. MLAA can't resolve subpixel changes. In motion small polygons do look...blobby. This won't appear in static screenshots.