Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2023]

[Inuhanyou]

Demon souls was originally praised for its "old school design" so from are just doing what they always have done. It also shows that not much has changed in development circles since the 7th gen when demon souls was considered a breath of fresh air from what was AAA mainstream and what is still considered AAA mainstream

 

[Cyan]

I think this is on purpose, though. I mean, obviously it's on purpose because they had someone voice those lines and put it in the game. But I think the design, where you have visual and auditory cues to help the player through the game aren't just there for "hand holding", but for accessibility. There has been a big push in the industry lately for accessibility, and subtle change like giving auditory and visual feedback allows for double the coverage of sensory feedback. I understand where you are coming from, and honestly I think the solution is to have an option that turns off/down the nagging. But I think they put it there for a reason that isn't just that they think players are dumb.

accessibility can be used for many things and it's a different story. My mother got blind 5 years ago and she needs every feature on her mobile to be accessible. For a gamer..., it's different. One of my favourite games, Shadow of the Tomb Raider, has the best approach, imho. You can set several details about the difficulty level, and there is one setting where you can choose whether you want Lara to give you hints about a puzzle (puzzles can be tricky) or not, also there is the senses thing, but even so the SotTR rewards the player's exploration.

 

[see colon]

accessibility can be used for many things and it's a different story. My mother got blind 5 years ago and she needs every feature on her mobile to be accessible. For a gamer..., it's different. One of my favourite games, Shadow of the Tomb Raider, has the best approach, imho. You can set several details about the difficulty level, and there is one setting where you can choose whether you want Lara to give you hints about a puzzle (puzzles can be tricky) or not, also there is the senses thing, but even so the SotTR rewards the player's exploration.

Yeah, Tomb Raider did it better. I agree that I like it when they have options to adjust the amount of it. All I'm saying is that there is a reason why it's there, and it isn't as simple as "Sony thinks we are stupid". Shadow of the Tomb Raider is also a fantastic title and I've had the urge recently to go through the trilogy again. The first game does look a bit dated, but Shadow and Rise hold up nicely.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

^ hehe, we have to charge our wireless mice too But these can game for 70 hours and up fortunatelly. Im waiting for this guy to arrive, any day now

[Bruce Lee Edition] X2 Gaming Mouse

“Simple but not simpler.” We kept this in mind all the time when we designed X2 structure. We designed a structure as simple as possible but maintained its durability. In the result, you are getting high performance gaming mouse that is lighter than the egg in your hand.

www.pulsar.gg

Get a wireless mouse that charges wirelessly while you use it. Ever since getting a Logitech Powerplay mouse and mat, I've never had to wonder if my mouse was going to die on me during the middle of a mission or firefight or work or whatever.

Regards,
SB

 

[iroboto]

Plagues Tale Requiem RT patch came out. RT shadows killing my 3070. Need the @Dictator settings lol. Just reduced to high and 1080p with RT shadows. Let’s see how it goes

 

[Phantom88]

A Plague Tale: Requiem looks WORSE with Ray Tracing, comparison screenshots

Asobo has just released a new update for A Plague Tale: Requiem that adds support for Ray Tracing. However, the game looks worse with them.

www.dsogaming.com

 

[Inuhanyou]

RT must be carefully curated with a games vision and art style

 

[Globalisateur]

RT must be carefully curated with a games vision and art style

Yes. The problem is they have to take care of 2 very different graphical modes, RT ON/OFF.

I really think they should use 4A Games (Metro Exodus) method about it on console. Just make one 60fps mode with DRS and using one reasonnable RT effect (here GI) so they take time to make it look great even if the resolution is not native 4K.

Nobody thought the console version lacked a 30fps 4K mode with bells and whistles in Metro, quite the contrary as it's still one of the reference on console. And if publishers (for demo and such) do need such a mode, just use the PC version with settings cranked up to max. No need to create a frankenstein console version running at sub 30fps 4K for that as this will create negativity about their game like we have seen in a couple of big recent releases.

 

[mr magoo]

RT must be carefully curated with a games vision and art style

It seems like a bug

“ray-traced shadows completely break the in-game ambient occlusion, making the game look worse”

RT AO dosent work and RT shadows break ao and game looks flat.

 

[Dictator]

That DSO article is pretty dumb. They are openly saying "we love SSAO artefacts and darkening where it makes no physical sense". Similarly "we love shadows that are pin needle sharp even though they physically should not be".
RTAO or RTShadows are the least offensive and least intrusive versions of RT you can put in a game, they are just usually better than their raster counter parts full stop unless the dev did something wrong... I am not seeing that in Plague Tale at all.

 

[davis.anthony]

That DSO article is pretty dumb. They are openly saying "we love SSAO artefacts and darkening where it makes no physical sense". Similarly "we love shadows that are pin needle sharp even though they physically should not be".
RTAO or RTShadows are the least offensive and least intrusive versions of RT you can put in a game, they are just usually better than their raster counter parts full stop unless the dev did something wrong... I am not seeing that in Plague Tale at all.

I agree, the game does have quite strong AO and I often found it quite distracting at times when playing it.

With the RT patch it looks more correct now.

 

[Karamazov]

we've been accustomed for years with fake lighting and effects, things that are physically incorrectly lit now seem more pleasing to the gamers eyes. as real lighting/shadowing can look dull just like in reality.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

That DSO article is pretty dumb. They are openly saying "we love SSAO artefacts and darkening where it makes no physical sense". Similarly "we love shadows that are pin needle sharp even though they physically should not be".

That it literally what they say, and they are frank about it. I don't think it's cool to attack a preference and call it dumb just because it differs to your preference for greater technical realism.

 

[davis.anthony]

That it literally what they say, and they are frank about it. I don't think it's cool to attack a preference and call it dumb just because it differs to your preference for greater technical realism.

A few stand out quotes from the article...

"Not only that but these ray-traced shadows completely break the in-game ambient occlusion, making the game look worse"

That is false

"However, the overall image now looks flat as there aren’t any AO effects"

That is also false

"This comparison perfectly showcases how much better the rasterized version actually is"

That is their opinion and they should not imply it as being a factual comment.

It's a very poor article full of incorrect information and opinions portrayed as facts, so I can understand why someone would call it dumb.

 

[Inuhanyou]

we've been accustomed for years with fake lighting and effects, things that are physically incorrectly lit now seem more pleasing to the gamers eyes. as real lighting/shadowing can look dull just like in reality.

This might be it. The dynamic color setting on your TV may not be realistic to life or real world color values, but it gives a pleasing pop to the masses that will otherwise find it drab.

As technically cutting edge as some effects might be, how they are to the normal person will vary just based on sight and even placebo

I've seen plenty of people see ps2 games on yt comparisons with hd remasters with the same assets and call the original version "more atmospheric and better" despite literally being outstripped in visual clarity, all other effects being similar.

I won't say people are dumb for thinking it even if I as someone who can see the difference better appreciates the jump in technology enhancing the product

 

[pjbliverpool]

That it literally what they say, and they are frank about it. I don't think it's cool to attack a preference and call it dumb just because it differs to your preference for greater technical realism.

It's not a preference if they're stating as fact - in a headline no less - that the graphics look worse, and the AO is broken.

Preferring less realistic lighting may well be a preference but it objectively does not make the graphics better.

I read this article yesterday before the commentary here and spent quite a while flicking between RT off and on in the first shot on full screen and while I could see "areas of darkening" that were missing on the RT scene, there were also very clear advantages of the RT scene. Looking at this below, look at the shadowing on the windows and overhang on the distant building on the right. And on the wall to the right of that as well as the tree in front of it. Look at the shadows inside the tent canopy at the end of the path directly ahead, or the plant in the bottom left of the screen. All these features are clearly much better in RT shot, and all that's really missing is the darkening around the goat which doesn't really make sense in the context of the lighting in that scene.

And honestly I don't know what the author is thinking of when looking at the last 2 shots which both look clearly and dramatically better with RT IMO.

 

[davis.anthony]

As much as I still do think it's best looking game I've ever seen I did hope they would have gone for RTGI in the game rather than shadows.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

That is their opinion and they should not imply it as being a factual comment.

Of course it's an opinion by the article author. Who is claiming this is an objectively factual analysis? It's not even described as a technical analysis of the RT patch.

I think you have read way more into it than the article contains, but some people infer things that others do not.

 

[iroboto]

That DSO article is pretty dumb. They are openly saying "we love SSAO artefacts and darkening where it makes no physical sense". Similarly "we love shadows that are pin needle sharp even though they physically should not be".
RTAO or RTShadows are the least offensive and least intrusive versions of RT you can put in a game, they are just usually better than their raster counter parts full stop unless the dev did something wrong... I am not seeing that in Plague Tale at all.

I’m not seeing these issues either.

 

[davis.anthony]

Of course it's an opinion by the article author. Who is claiming this is an objectively factual analysis? It's not even described as a technical analysis of the RT patch.

I think you have read way more into it than the article contains, but some people infer things that others do not.

And you have read Alex's comment incorrectly.

As an overall article and factoring in the 'opinions' expressed as facts and incorrect comments made in the article, it can be described as dumb.