We aren't comparing computing devices for platform wars. We are discussing about the subject relevant with the thread. DIGITAL FOUNDRY DISCUSSION AND TECHNICAL ANALYSIS OF GAMES
Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2023]
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If I didn't own the PC version, I would use the quality mode settings on PS5. Typically, I wouldn't support 30fps gaming in this day and age, but in this case, I would rather have the eye-candy in this instance.
davis.anthony
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And I gave examples of GAMES!
If I wake up in the morning and decide I want to play Splinter Cell Chaos Theory again, I simply download it and enjoy.
Can a PS5/XSX owner do that?
DF are, after all (Especially John) are big supporters of backwards compatibility and preserving games.
The two platforms are incomparable in any sense.
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I was expecting a Cyberpunk overdrive level of visual difference here with the PT. I personally think the IQ is the biggest benefit the PC version offers as the game on consoles honestly looks like plain old FXAA/SMAA from 2 generations ago. This is a much better looking game than Cyberpunk though. I agree it's the best looking game so far.
davis.anthony
Veteran
Yes, I am disappointed with it's PT implementation if I'm being honest as I also expected CP2077 levels of PT.
I'm a little bit confused as to why we have to include all hardware components of the PC when considering its value proposition compared with a console but simultaneously can't include all of its additional functionality?
davis.anthony
Veteran
What happens if you built an RTX 3090 based PC before PS5/XSX even released?
Could you argue the cost vs a 'next gen' console is $0? As it was technically built in PS4/Xbox One generation and hasn't actually had any money spent on it since the PS5/XSX generation started.
What's lacking with the path tracing? Honestly I think their software GI is just incredibly good, so you don't see as stark a difference of path tracing on/off vs Cyberpunk which doesn't have very good GI unless you're using some form of ray tracing or path tracing.
davis.anthony
Veteran
CP2077 just looks more complete and scenes looked more uniform with it's PT turned on.
But I do agree with you in that it's none RT based GI is terrible.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
It's always weird trying to compare the value proposition of a console to a PC.
IMO, anytime that is done you really REALLY need to explain why.
So, for example, anyone looking for just a gaming machine, there is zero competition to a console WRT value proposition. Honestly a PC doesn't even enter that discussion. Yes you can get better graphics from a PC, but from a value perspective, there is just nothing that comes close to consoles for pure gaming.
Now, if you need a machine for anything other than media consumption and gaming, then a console obviously holds zero value compared to a PC (Mac is also a Personal Computer in this case
).It's always going to be difficult to have a discussion WRT value when different people are coming at it from different directions. For me, I can think of it in terms of just the GPU because I also need a PC for other things (like work). However, if someone doesn't need the machine to do anything other than gaming, then the full cost of a PC is relevant because the only reason they are buying that PC hardware is for gaming and nothing else that a console wouldn't also provide them.
Basically, this is one of the reasons there is almost no overlap between the PC gaming market and the console gaming market and one of the reasons that Sony now has no problems with offering their exclusives on PC.
So, basically...
If you need a machine to do anything other than game or watch movies, PC is a good value proposition (you just need a decent GPU to add gaming capabilities to a machine you already need).
If you don't need it for anything other than gaming, PC is an absolutely horrible value proposition (you need an entire PC just for gaming).
Obviously if money doesn't matter than PC can offer a better experience as long as you don't mind dealing with any potential OS issues, bugs, driver issues, etc.
Regards,
SB
davis.anthony
Veteran
Now I disagree with that to some extent.
If you're just looking to play games and do not care about frame rate, image quality or graphics then yes, I agree, a PC wouldn't even be in the discussion.
But if frame rate, image quality or graphics are important to you then PC will and should be in the discussion, and if they're your top priority then a console wouldn't even be in the discussion.
Ray tracing has also changed the game, you can't build a PC for double the price of PS5 that offers double the raster performance, but you can build a PC for double the price of PS5 that offers double (or more) the more performance in ray tracing.
So in ray tracing loads PC absolutely holds the price/performance crown over console.
Exactly. We shouldn’t assume everyone is happy with console compromises.
The inverse of this is true as well depending on the variables you are using to validate the value of something. If you are comparing the value proposition of "games that look good enough" then yes, consoles I would say have the edge. But if you prioritize something else, like wanting the largest library of games, or wanting greater than console frame rates regardless of image quality, or the platform with the most ultrawide support... You can see how the value proposition changes. I have a coworker who just built a PC using a Ryzen APU for $350 or $400. She already has a Switch and Series S, and her room mate has a PS5 and Series X. But all she plays is dating sims, visual novels, and Vampire Survivors. So her PC gets plenty of use because to the library, and price, of those games. Is that an edge case? Maybe. But it's a perfect example of how value is subjective based on the criteria you find important.
I beg to differ. If you're looking for a simple gaming machine which doesn't allow you to do anything with your games, then the value proposition of consoles cannot be beaten. What if you have a 165Hz 3440x1440 monitor though. Where is the value proposition of a console that cannot take advantage of that? What if you have $1500 for a gaming machine, why would you buy a $400 technically limited piece of hardware. The value proposition of console goes far, if you're unwilling to spend more. If you want to spend more to get more, you're shit out of luck because they're a fixed spec. For someone who seriously wants to splurge into gaming and get something better than just "alright," the value of consoles is effectively 0 because it doesn't even do what you want.
For someone who just wants to game and doesn't mind whatever they're given, then no, console cannot be exceeded or even matched.
On — occasionally, especially on smaller surfaces with lots of detail, like faces, you get a strange blotchy result which is eye catching to me and I assume is from the denoiser.
Hardware components to be able to play and run a game we are currently discussing about at certain performance.
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Because we aren't doing overall platform comparisons in this specific thread. We are very specific with the subject of this thread. Digital Foundry Tech analysis and specifically how Alan Wake 2 runs under different hardware configurations.
If you want to discuss BC, video editing, office applications, DJing software, browse the web, or emulation you are welcome to bring it up in a new thread or a Digital Foundry's Retro thread.
It’s a 43% lead and the 3070 wipes the floor with the 3060 by 52% at 1080p/max settings.
So yeah, PS5 performs in the territory of a 2070S/2080 like it should.
GhostofWar
Regular
I'm not sure we should even be using discontinued hardware when talking about pc/console price/value. If you can't buy the hardware new anymore I just don't understand the point of saying x build with y hardware is z times faster than y console. If your buying/building a pc today you can only use what you can buy, and if we are going 2nd hand to bring that hardware into the equation it really muddies the price aspect.
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