Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2020]

[Rootax]

Have we somewhere a Series S vs One X (for Dirt and/or ACV )?

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Is Cyberpunk 2077 going to be running in BC mode on the XSX/PS5?

Maybe? Or, They may have a quick-n-dirty version running native but without using the new goodies. Where the extensive use of goodies comes months later.

CDPR clarified the situation vis-a-vis the nextgen console day one patch a while back - Eurogamer's article:

Anyone with a PS4 copy will be able to play that on PS5 and receive a free update to improve the game's visuals on Sony's next-gen machine (like Xbox One / Series X).

The developer further clarified that this would not be the final update to buff the next-gen version of Cyberpunk 2077. A beefier version of the game optimised for Microsoft and Sony's new machines will follow down the line - perhaps some time down the line - but again be available to PS4 and Xbox One owners free of charge. "I can confirm this is not the final update," CD Projekt exec Michał Nowakowski said. "At some point we will have a more robust update for next-gen which we plan to give free of charge to anyone who purchases the PS4 or Xbox One version.​

So it seems almost certain that PS5 and Xbox X|S will get higher resolutions and frame rates as these are probably easy to do. I'd hope they they'll also use higher-LOD settings and textures throughout the game as well, this seems like a fairly easy give.

 

[RobertR1]

There's no reason to beat around the bush. Coming in as an underdog with no 1st party title on offer, Xbox team needs to be knee deep at every studio possible to make sure their platform is well represented in head to heads.

This is a borderline disaster. You can spend an entire generation unwinding early impressions. If CP2077 performs better on the PS5 than the XSX, it's close to being over already.

 

[JPT]

Its not over its at least a 5 year run.
It was a bigger gap the last gen and even a bigger one the gen before that.
MS needs to have enough supply of consoles and release some compeling exclusives, to show som differentiation.
If not they will just be the other box without Sony exclusives available or the subscription box (gamepass).
Both machines have been out for about 10 days.
We have maybe 5 cross platform games yo compare.

And even if PS5 keeps this advantage, so what?
I am willing to bet a decent wad of cash that MS/Sony measure of success is not what console warriors on either side deems as a win.

 

[RobertR1]

Its not over its at least a 5 year run.
It was a bigger gap the last gen and even a bigger one the gen before that.
MS needs to have enough supply of consoles and release some compeling exclusives, to show som differentiation.
If not they will just be the other box without Sony exclusives available or the subscription box (gamepass).
Both machines have been out for about 10 days.
We have maybe 5 cross platform games yo compare.

And even if PS5 keeps this advantage, so what?
I am willing to bet a decent wad of cash that MS/Sony measure of success is not what console warriors on either side deems as a win.

MS pushed their console as a return to forefront as being the powerful console.

You need to deliver on that front from the start for the mindshare to develop.

PS3 didn't lose it's reputation as the weaker console that's hard to develop for all generation. x360 was able to even absorb the red ring issues because people still wanted the 'superior' console.

The PS4 wiped the floor with the obviously less powerful XB1. The X1X being notably better than the PS4 Pro did great for MS to claw back mindshare which built up the hype for the XSX.

The XSX isn't some cheaper alternative. They're priced the same.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

There's no reason to beat around the bush. Coming in as an underdog with no 1st party title on offer, Xbox team needs to be knee deep at every studio possible to make sure their platform is well represented in head to heads.

I still believe that a statistically insignificant number of consoles owners care about head-to-head comparisons. Consoles have generally been the best bang-for-buck option if you don't mind a few technical compromises. For generations console owners have lived with fluctuating, and often really poor, frame rates, tearing, slow load times etc. The vast majority of console owners are just enjoying their games and not arguing on forums about which console has the best tech.

DF's Red Dead Redemption 2 comparison video has 1.2m views now - that value today represented around .8% of the console base in 2018 - it would certainly have had even less views in 2018.

 

[AbsoluteBeginner]

MS pushed their console as a return to forefront as being the powerful console.

You need to deliver on that front from the start for the mindshare to develop.

PS3 didn't lose it's reputation as the weaker console that's hard to develop for all generation. x360 was able to even absorb the red ring issues because people still wanted the 'superior' console.

The PS4 wiped the floor with the obviously less powerful XB1. The X1X being notably better than the PS4 Pro did great for MS to claw back mindshare which built up the hype for the XSX.

The XSX isn't some cheaper alternative. They're priced the same.

Luckily for them both Sony and MS still see too big of a demand and shortages will go on for months, maybe a year the way PS5 is selling, and in year you can turn these negatives rather easily. If its more performant box in real life and if dev tools are the culprit. If not, then XSS will be big deal for many PS5 owners that will want to play MS exclusives which will no doubt be top notch once all these studios start to crank them out.

 

[JPT]

MS pushed their console as a return to forefront as being the powerful console.

You need to deliver on that front from the start for the mindshare to develop.

PS3 didn't lose it's reputation as the weaker console that's hard to develop for all generation. x360 was able to even absorb the red ring issues because people still wanted the 'superior' console.

The PS4 wiped the floor with the obviously less powerful XB1. The X1X being notably better than the PS4 Pro did great for MS to claw back mindshare which built up the hype for the XSX.

The XSX isn't some cheaper alternative. They're priced the same.

It still is the most powerful console, if you count TF.

Yes, PS3 was considered the weaker console on this board and by the 1337 gamers. But the avg person had no idea, what stood out that generation was the the games, Halo was still freshish, Gears of War, Unchartered, The Last of Us etc etc.

Did really the One X create any mindshare for most people? I do not belive that, everybody had a PS and about half of that number had an X. Maybe that was due to the fact that pS4 was more powerful, but I assume lot of the messaging about TV and always online etc contributed more to that in the beginning.
This new generation is more like the PS360 one, the run in was two consoles, quite even in total. But if you look at the DF Dirt 5 comparison, hey are very even, 120fps, vrr and what not withstanding. To the average/normal gamer, it will not be noticeable.

Now, you can hope for a small step for GDK and a giant leap for XSX, but I doubt you will see it, how often do you see a such great leaps with iterations of a SDK?
I expect that going forward, as it has been in the past, some games are measurably better on one console and some others on the other console, but is it noticable.

Because in the end, most of this stuff, you do not see when you play the game, it's a specific screen shot to count pixels and other times pictures where you have to compare it directly to notice.
I see similar things in my job, we measure a shit show, but the user does not perceive that they have a bad experience. Other times the measurements are perfect, but the user still complains, due to wrong expectations. I have a phd student/candiate working for me and we had to realign his thesis a bit to make sure we counted for this. Instead of QoS as the focus its now QoE.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

I'm enjoying my Series X and think it's a great system and hopefully it will have success in the market, I do agree with Robert though that the optics aren't looking all that great at the moment. I initially thought MS has the bases covered pretty well with their lineup, but now the $399 Digital PS5 is force choking the Series S making it look less compelling than what a $200 gap would have made it look. Series X was touted as being the most powerful console and the best place to play 3rd party games, but now we are looking at it battling for draws while holding onto it's dear life and falling short here and there. As a challenger to the scene, they can't be fumbling the ball this much imo. Yeah it's early, but I thought Sony would have more troubles out the gate. Not this.

 

[Xbat]

DF's Red Dead Redemption 2 comparison video has 1.2m views now - that value today represented around .8% of the console base in 2018 - it would certainly have had even less views in 2018.

.
It's not as cut and dry as that. How much impact did the people who watched the comparison influence people on forums/social media?

 

[Deleted member 11852]

.It's not as cut and dry as that. How much impact did the people who watched the comparison influence people on forums/social media?

I've no idea, how many?

 

[Xbat]

I've no idea, how many?

Don't know but I assume it has some effect.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Don't know but I assume it has some effect.

And that's the thing, there is a distinct lack of evidence that these people have any meaningful influence. 360 was demonstrably better than PS3 in most cross-platform games, sometimes dramatically so, and PS3 went on to sell almost 100m. In my experience, people will prioritise buying the system with the games they want to play (nuts, right!) and/or the system their friends have. Who is really buying a machine which doesn't play the games they want because cross-platform games are imperceptibly better on another box?

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Don't know but I assume it has some effect.

I bet it was an almost unnoticeable effect. I had a conversation with a guy once - sometime during PS3 generation or something - I asked him if he knew that PS3 runs multiplatform games worse than Xbox 360. And he answered that [But it runs the game]. For Xbox One I think for example the main issue was lack of games, rather than the power.

 

[Xbat]

360 was demonstrably better than PS3 in most cross-platform games, sometimes dramatically so, and PS3 went on to sell almost 100m.

Yes and it was the worst selling PlayStation and the 360 was the best selling Xbox so it definitely had an effect.

I bet it was an almost unnoticeable effect. I had a conversation with a guy once - sometime during PS3 generation or something

Times have changed and social media seems to have a much bigger impact now.
Just saying that irritates me, I hate social media. I suppose hates to stronger a word but yeah not a fan.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

PS3 went on to sell almost 100m.

It sold less than any other Playstation by a significant margin and got badly outsold to Xbox in North America. (49M vs 29M units) The only Playstation that lost to Xbox in NA. These are not minor blips.

 

[Arwin]

No, and the price was also a factor.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Yes and it was the worst selling PlayStation and the 360 was the best selling Xbox so it definitely had an effect.

I bet if you have a decent competition you sell less Not to mention price - I mean it was almost 600 $ no?

 

[Strange]

PS3 generation was the first real generation that head to head multiplatforms actually started to make sense. It was stuff like RE4 previous gen.

Now much more gamers are aware of multiplatform comparisons and I'd bet much more gamers are aware of these comparisons now compared to like 10 years ago..

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Yes and it was the worst selling PlayStation and the 360 was the best selling Xbox so it definitely had an effect.

It sold less than any other Playstation by a significant margin and got badly outsold to Xbox in North America. (49M vs 29M units) The only Playstation that lost to Xbox in NA. These are not minor blips.

There is a distinct correlation between PlayStation unit sales and price. PS3 was the most expensive PlayStation and relative to the market size, sold the least. If technical edge is such a swing factor why PS3 sell as many units as 360 despite the price? If technical edge is such a swing factor how did Microsoft sell any Xbox Ones? Why did Pro and One X not vastly sell outsell base consoles?

The vast majority are not swaying by technical advantages. There is no evidence of this.