Current Generation Games Analysis Technical Discussion [2023] [XBSX|S, PS5, PC]

[Dictator]

Well maybe you did a pixel count and know better but to my knowledge, Oliver will be analyzing this one for DF so we will see. I am just going off of traditional Quality v performance mode expectations on that one. At the very least, I hope it's not too controversial to say here that the resolution is MUCH higher than Matrix Awakens demo and image stability isn't even in the same stratosphere.

So all that considered, as it relates to rendering far out detail into the distance, SM2 is an achievement we haven't really seen before. Especially from a shipped game.

They scale res in all modes in their Games - but at Times you would hard pressed to know because it reconstructs Back Up to Output. Go watch Johns review of ratchet - they allow it to scale to something Like 1200p in the Quality mode at worst.

 

[mr magoo]

It turns out modders have added Spiderman to UE5 The Matrix demo!

It looks a full generation a head of Spiderman 2 on PS5.

Warning: YouTube screen grabs so not the clearest or sharpest of images.

View attachment 8965View attachment 8966View attachment 8967

This is insane! This is how the new SP3 on PS6 will look like

 

[Karamazov]

i'm sure a spiderman developped by insomniac with nanite lumen would look just as good, Sppiderman 2 engine might still have roots in the last gen, you can't just wipe an entire engine for a game releasing 3 years after Miles Morales.
Spiderman 2 will still look very good I'm sure, and will be a full game.

UE5 with nanite and lumen brings a paradigm shift, the kind a big jump in visuals that will take some time for other engines to follow.

 

[arandomguy]

By the way the stutter does not come from asset streaming but from handling AI NPCs and cars, if you remove NPCs and moving cars, no more stutter

Is this a fair caveat though as it pertains to games? I believe this has always been a question mark with respect to the Matrix UE5 demo in terms of how it would behave once everything else required for a game is added in.

 

[Karamazov]

we'll really know when a city based openworld game releases in UE5.

 

[Globalisateur]

There's actually swing speed mods aswell that kinda disrupt the argument about ps5 io being needed for faster travel speeds.

Sure if you have a CPU twice or more powerful than PS5 CPU. Nobody said PC won't be able to brute force it the way they actually do.

 

[davis.anthony]

Sure if you have a CPU twice or more powerful than PS5 CPU. Nobody said PC won't be able to brute force it the way they actually do.

There's no CPU twice as powerful as PS5's

 

[mr magoo]

i'm sure a spiderman developped by insomniac with nanite lumen would look just as good, Sppiderman 2 engine might still have roots in the last gen, you can't just wipe an entire engine for a game releasing 3 years after Miles Morales.
Spiderman 2 will still look very good I'm sure, and will be a full game.

UE5 with nanite and lumen brings a paradigm shift, the kind a big jump in visuals that will take some time for other engines to follow.

Yes its still amazing that they are releasing a second game for PS5. And as someone who didn't play first one (even on ps4) i think it looks fantastic.

 

[arandomguy]

There's no CPU twice as powerful as PS5's

I think that might be debatable from a raw performance stand point assuming we ignore API/platform optimizations.

PS5 CPU is I think about a 5700g with 80% (a bit less) the clock speed. 5700g is about 1500 Cinebench R23 ST stock.

 

[chris1515]

Sure if you have a CPU twice or more powerful than PS5 CPU. Nobody said PC won't be able to brute force it the way they actually do.

We don't know the hardware it is running maybe everything is inside RAM and there is no streaming at all.

 

[Liandry]

I don't think it's as big of a deal as many are making out to be however. You need more bandwidth to feed more CUs, there's not really anyway around it.

Isn't that also true for PS5 CUs, because they fork with higher frequensy so use more data?

 

[davis.anthony]

I think that might be debatable from a raw performance stand point assuming we ignore API/platform optimizations.

PS5 CPU is I think about a 5700g with 80% (a bit less) the clock speed. 5700g is about 1500 Cinebench R23 ST stock.

Games are sill massively single threaded limited and there's no CPU that offers double.

 

[iroboto]

Isn't that also true for PS5 CUs, because they fork with higher frequensy so use more data?

Well in theory they do. The faster your ALU moves at, the more data you need closer to your ALU. It’s a caching problem for them. Memory will always be the slowest aspect, and it will take an eternity for memory to arrive, so your CUs will sit there idle waiting for memory to arrive after w request. So instead of wasting those cycles, you give them a bigger cache and they work their code doing a lot of localized work instead. That cache which sits on the chip is going to provide a lot of bandwidth, much more than vram. It’s going to be cheaper I think as well.

The faster ALU moves at the closer memory needs to be to ALU. Or it’s just wasted performance.

somehow you gotta find a way to properly feed your ALU, whether it is fast or slow. You are going to either add more cache or more memory bandwidth.

 

[arandomguy]

Games are sill massively single threaded limited and there's no CPU that offers double.

Cinbench R23 ST means single thread. CB R23 ST scales basically with clockspeed so the PS5 would likely score ~1200. 13900k as seen on that chart is 2261, not quite double but nearing there.

Also I did show you gaming benchmarks on that chart, relative performance of the 5700G is 55.6% versus the 7800X3D, probably likely at least very close to double if you were to downclock the 5700G to 3.5Ghz.

Again this isn't accounting for API/platform specifics just looking at raw performance.

 

[I'mDudditz!]

You're the last person in this forum who can lecture anyone on what and does not contribute to any discussion.

Spiderman 2 is an OK looking game if you can look past the obvious pop-in and visible LOD transitions, something that doesn't happen un the UE5 Matrix demo.

Streamable Video

Watch this video on Streamable.

streamable.com

By the way the stutter does not come from asset streaming but from handling AI NPCs and cars, if you remove NPCs and moving cars, no more stutter

LOL! If you remove the features that distinguish a game from a demo, no more stutter!

There's actually swing speed mods aswell that kinda disrupt the argument about ps5 io being needed for faster travel speeds.

The textures aren't loading!


What is happening in this thread!?

 

[Karamazov]

Streamable Video

Watch this video on Streamable.

streamable.com

LOL! If you remove the features that distinguish a game from a demo, no more stutter!



The textures aren't loading!


What is happening in this thread!?

well honestly if you put everything to 50% there are a very few stutter and still a density of cars a lot higher than any other open world games.
and in my video without traffic there are still the 45000 parked cars.

 

[I'mDudditz!]

They scale res in all modes in their Games - but at Times you would hard pressed to know because it reconstructs Back Up to Output. Go watch Johns review of ratchet - they allow it to scale to something Like 1200p in the Quality mode at worst.

I did.

John at Digital Foundry - "Primarily [quality mode] aims for native 4k output. I found counting it that 1800p was the lowest that I found, sort of the lowest average. But it was also very close to hitting that 4k pixel count. But it can drop to 1296p in the rarest instances. I would say it's not really representative of the actual normal resolution."

So mentioning "1200p" for Ratchet and Clank in the context of discussing Matrix demo is very strange to say the least, and it's virtually worthless as a data point comparison. It is far more often 4k than it ever will be in the range of 1296p.

 

[I'mDudditz!]

The matrix demo was low res because it's lighting engine dwarfs Insomniac's lighting system for their rendering engine (i.e. typical GI probe data vs. signed distance fields and pure RTGI + RTAO).

Where is your data to support any of this? And why are you conveniently side stepping the difficulties of render target while also incorporating game logic in the case of Insomniac?

 

[GhostofWar]

We don't know the hardware it is running maybe everything is inside RAM and there is no streaming at all.

You can get the mod on nexus mods and test yourself, you can also search youtube and look at other videos using the mod there's tonnes of them. I'm pretty sure none are using a ramdrive as once you get to above 50x swing speed it can cause stalls.

edit: went and got you one with pc specs listed. Doesn't list ssd but I think we can probably agree its a gen 3 drive and he can't fit the game in 32gb of ram.

CPU : AMD Ryzen 3700x 8 cores/16 threadsGPU : ZOTAC RTX 2060 SuperRAM : XPG 32gb 3200mhz

 

[function]

I did.

John at Digital Foundry - "Primarily [quality mode] aims for native 4k output. I found counting it that 1800p was the lowest that I found, sort of the lowest average. But it was also very close to hitting that 4k pixel count. But it can drop to 1296p in the rarest instances. I would say it's not really representative of the actual normal resolution."

So mentioning "1200p" for Ratchet and Clank in the context of discussing Matrix demo is very strange to say the least, and it's virtually worthless as a data point comparison. It is far more often 4k than it ever will be in the range of 1296p.

"...something Like 1200p in the Quality mode at worst."

For context, this line of discussion was borne of your claim that Spiderman 2 was running at native 4K. A claim far more inaccurate than Dictator losing 96peas in his "something like" recollection of the huge scalability of Insomniacs excellent approach to DRS in Ratchet. Because, you see, their DRS is both excellently handled and hugely scalable.

And Dictator didn't mention Spiderman 2 not being native 4K in context of The Matrix. He mentioned it in the context of you saying it, and it being wrong. Any context relating to The Matrix came from your post, and the highly partisan war you're attempting to wage. Which we'd all be better off for you putting on one side.