Current Generation Games Analysis Technical Discussion [2023] [XBSX|S, PS5, PC]

[Flappy Pannus]

I did.

John at Digital Foundry - "Primarily [quality mode] aims for native 4k output. I found counting it that 1800p was the lowest that I found, sort of the lowest average. But it was also very close to hitting that 4k pixel count. But it can drop to 1296p in the rarest instances. I would say it's not really representative of the actual normal resolution."

How is what Alex saying anything different here

They scale res in all modes in their Games - but at Times you would hard pressed to know because it reconstructs Back Up to Output. Go watch Johns review of ratchet - they allow it to scale to something Like 1200p in the Quality mode at worst.

He's just saying that games on PS5 often use DRS even in their '4k' resolution modes, and gave the example at the lowest bounds in R&C, it can reach 1200p, just like John said. You're trying to make an argument from nothing, as usual.

 

[VFX_Veteran]

How is what Alex saying anything different here



He's just saying that games on PS5 often use DRS even in their '4k' resolution modes, and gave the example at the lowest bounds in R&C, it can reach 1200p, just like John said. You're trying to make an argument from nothing, as usual.

I just came on here after a long hiatus. I didn't know about this guy. Thanks for the information.

 

[I'mDudditz!]

"...something Like 1200p in the Quality mode at worst."

For context, this line of discussion was borne of your claim that Spiderman 2 was running at native 4K. A claim far more inaccurate than Dictator losing 96peas in his "something like" recollection of the huge scalability of Insomniacs excellent approach to DRS in Ratchet. Because, you see, their DRS is both excellently handled and hugely scalable.

Yes, but when we discuss something like DRS, I think it is very important to explore the commonality of the upper and lower bounds again for context; I don't even understand how that's debatable. He brought up Ratchet as example and when you take into account what John said, I personally wouldn't bother mentioning the 1200p because it is such an outlier. I think him mentioning scaling down to 1800p would be more accurate, if and only if he isn't inclined to include the bits from John that I included.

And Dictator didn't mention Spiderman 2 not being native 4K in context of The Matrix. He mentioned it in the context of you saying it, and it being wrong. Any context relating to The Matrix came from your post, and the highly partisan war you're attempting to wage. Which we'd all be better off for you putting on one side.

Prior to Dictator's arrival, the discussion at the time veered into comparisons of the Matrix Awakens vs. Spiderman 2 rendering accomplishments. And I am comparing both demo and trailer as it runs on one platform - PS5. There is no discussion of any other platform whatsoever. So where does this charge of a "partisan war" come from? Another unfair statement directed at me but whatever.

How is what Alex saying anything different here, do you know what words mean?

Another unwarranted attack. Focus on the context of the discussion that was taking place before.


It seems I can't ever get any opinion in without getting accused of something, regardless of data I provide to support so I'll refrain from contributing anymore.

 

[davis.anthony]

It seems I can't ever get any opinion in without getting accused of something, regardless of data I provide to support so I'll refrain from contributing anymore.

Which should show you that you are the problem, so think about how you can improve your commenting and way of trying to talk your points with others.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Maybe you wouldent be accosted if your posts were not incorrect all the time. Just a thought.

Alex and John know their stuff. It's not on them to prove their credentials or technical claims

 

[Remij]

Yes, but when we discuss something like DRS, I think it is very important to explore the commonality of the upper and lower bounds again for context; I don't even understand how that's debatable. He brought up Ratchet as example and when you take into account what John said, I personally wouldn't bother mentioning the 1200p because it is such an outlier. I think him mentioning scaling down to 1800p would be more accurate, if and only if he isn't inclined to include the bits from John that I included.

I'll just be honest with you. This type of insecurity really has no place on this forum. If a user can't make a factual statement without having to dress it up and sugarcoat it so that another user wont catch some feelings about it, well then that will completely stifle any meaningful discussion.

Realize that everyone on this forum knows exactly how Ratchet and Clank runs, and that it's not 1296p all the time or even often. That wasn't what was said or insinuated.. so there's no need to be defensive about it.

 

[function]

It seems I can't ever get any opinion in without getting accused of something, regardless of data I provide to support so I'll refrain from contributing anymore.

This is you trying to write your own epilogue in the story of you getting rinsed. You're not a victim, you were simply wrong and your position was rejected ... and correctly so in this case.

We've all got stuff wrong. I've been corrected on many occasions here (and been butthurt more than once). And thank god for that, looking back.

Take a day or two off and try and come back with a better attitude. No-one wants you to leave. But everyone would appreciate you being willing to have more honest and Socratic conversations in the future.

 

[Flappy Pannus]

It's coming, and soon.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1663561121658183680

It seems too early to really take advantage Directstorage 1.1+ considering it would have been in early beta when this game was starting development, but who knows. I hope it does use it but if any studio can make a decent port of this without it, it's Nixxes.

Probably the most consistently impressive presentation from a game I've seen this gen. While not the best example of the most cutting-edge raytracing implementation, when all the elements are accounted for, such as image quality, artwork, animation and overall performance, I'd say this game impresses me the most.

 

[Shortbread]

It's coming, and soon.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1663561121658183680

It seems too early to really take advantage Directstorage 1.1+ considering it would have been in early beta when this game was starting development, but who knows. I hope it does use it but if any studio can make a decent port of this without it, it's Nixxes.

Probably the most consistently impressive presentation from a game I've seen this gen. While not the best example of the most cutting-edge raytracing implementation, when all the elements are accounted for, such as image quality, artwork, and overall performance, I'd say this game impresses me the most.

Double dip, here I come.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1663561260439601155

 

[Shortbread]

Just beautiful... just beautiful.

Been enjoying CP2077 all over again with PT.

 

[Below2D]

It's coming, and soon.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1663561121658183680

It seems too early to really take advantage Directstorage 1.1+ considering it would have been in early beta when this game was starting development, but who knows. I hope it does use it but if any studio can make a decent port of this without it, it's Nixxes.

Probably the most consistently impressive presentation from a game I've seen this gen. While not the best example of the most cutting-edge raytracing implementation, when all the elements are accounted for, such as image quality, artwork, animation and overall performance, I'd say this game impresses me the most.

That's a big one. I really wonder how it'll fare on PC.

 

[troyan]

Looks like supporting every upscaling technique on this planet isnt so hard after all...

Does Rift use the same engine as Spider-Man?

 

[Below2D]

Looks like supporting every upscaling technique on this planet isnt so hard after all...

Does Rift use the same engine as Spider-Man?

Apparently, they run on the Insomniac Engine which interestingly also was used for Sunset Overdrive.

https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Engine:Insomniac_Engine

 

[troyan]

Cool, thx.
Great example what the return of an one time investment is.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

You have thrown up a bunch of random facts and figures with very little in the way of context. But I will take on your very first bullet point as it has at least somewhat form of significance to the discussion of render distance. You are comparing a world in the Matrix demo modeled after downtown LA, which is less than 6 square miles and no more than 3 miles from it's furthest two points. In comparison, the Spiderman 2 screenshot is taken from Battery Park NYC southern coast, and the map extends to Harlem NY at minimum, meaning you are looking at 8 miles minimum and as the screenshot shows, assets are drawn all the way up to the horizon. Finally, the Spiderman 2 map is far more dense with building structures than the Matrix Demo. So yes, I hope that all of this is enough to understand that the draw distance and asset/geometric detail is much greater in Spiderman 2 than the Matrix Demo

That's by no means conclusive evidence of geometry. If Nanite models window detail at the sub-pixel level, say, while SM2 LOD's them into flat surfaces, the shorter draw distance could result in far greater detail.

What's necessary is actual triangle draw counts. Without that data, eyeballing isn't sufficient insight.

The textures aren't loading!

I'm not seeing any obvious problems. UE5 seems to be streaming NYC just fine. Givne the nature of Nanite, it's understandable that it can keep up with SM where that game was designed for a PS4 not using Nanite with a different streaming tech. That is, what SM needs to move quickly on PS5 isn't necessarily a limitation of all fast-city streaming once you move to other tech, and this video appears to show that.

So mentioning "1200p" for Ratchet and Clank in the context of discussing Matrix demo is very strange to say the least, and it's virtually worthless as a data point comparison. It is far more often 4k than it ever will be in the range of 1296p.

But mentioning it's rendering at native 4K when it isn't is even more questionable. The point about as low as 1200p is only to illustrate how far off the mark "native 4K" rendering can get. 1800p is also not native 4K, but ~70% of it.

Yes, but when we discuss something like DRS, I think it is very important to explore the commonality of the upper and lower bounds again for context;

That's not the discussion. It's simply trying to refute your point that SM is native 4K. Do you accept the game is not native 4K? Can you adjust your assertion in line with the counterpoints? Perhaps instead of saying native 4K say "2.5x resolution of the Matrix demo" if the point is SM is rendering higher resolution?

This echoes of the previous "PS5 runs like a 3060" comment in another thread. Attempts to prove/disprove that simple assertion ended up in messy conversation, and never really got resolved with a simple data point comparison showing framerates of the same game on PS5 and 3060.

Sometimes the answer isn't proving oneself right but changing the expression of the argument to make it easier to follow and compare.

 

[Opeth]

It's coming, and soon.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1663561121658183680

It seems too early to really take advantage Directstorage 1.1+ considering it would have been in early beta when this game was starting development, but who knows. I hope it does use it but if any studio can make a decent port of this without it, it's Nixxes.

Probably the most consistently impressive presentation from a game I've seen this gen. While not the best example of the most cutting-edge raytracing implementation, when all the elements are accounted for, such as image quality, artwork, animation and overall performance, I'd say this game impresses me the most.

My HDD is ready!

 

[Remij]

My HDD is ready!

Going to be fun seeing this run on Steam Deck

 

[pjbliverpool]

My HDD is ready!

I have an HDD, an SSD, and an NVMe in my system. Testing this is going to be fun!

 

[Flappy Pannus]

I have an HDD, an SSD, and an NVMe in my system. Testing this is going to be fun!

Same. Testing Spiderman on my 8GB 5400rpm HDD, when you first boot it up and fly around, there are a handful of stutters - but after the first few mins that's about it. When you teleport to a different part of the city you definitely see textures on some buildings take in longer to show up if you spawn on the roof of a building, but overall performance is a very solid 60. It's completely playable on a 5400rpm HDD.

 

[techuse]

R&C will go a long way towards ending the 3 year debate that has been raging here.