djskribbles
Legend
Buying new TV - Go LED or wait for 3d?
- Thread starter Cheezdoodles
- Start date
djskribbles
Legend
Maybe I don't know the exact definition of the word, but what I meant to say was that everyone has a different opinion of what looks good.
Good point. While some things can be used as a reference point (even if you plan on using out of the box settings), for the most part, this chart should only be used if you plan on calibrating your TV.
I've always been afraid of plasmas because of the burn-in issue and also they use more power(Is this still the case?). A couple years ago I remember feeling the back of a plasma tv and it gets pretty hot, its probably not the same now. Iam concerned with lag and of course them being cheaper is a huge plus also so I dunno, I guess I will be spending alot of time at the store when its time.
They had a short snipet King Kong playing at the time and it almost seemed like a different movie I kind of like it. Also, having the ability to disable it and watch it in cinematic mode is not bad either. Are plasmas capable of this mode?
Of course, but technically when it comes to PQ there is a right and wrong. Right being an accurate reproduction of the source material and wrong being, um, the opposite of that :smile:
When I say "X has better PQ than Y", I mean that in an objective sense (more accurate color decoding, more neutral greyscale, better black levels, off angle viewing, etc.).
There is no burn-in issue for Plasmas and hasn't been any for quite a few years. You might get image retention, but after playing different content, the image retention is gone.
As for energy use, I think Plasma has come within striking distance when you consider the larger sets over 42 inches. They drastically cut power usage with the new 2008 models, and have been making steady strides ever since. As for heat generation, my Panasonic 54" V10 series (2009 model) is very cool to the touch. The hottest spots I'd barely say are warm.
As for lag, most/many of the mid/high end models will have a "Game" mode which should cut out a lot of any post-processing image manipulation to minimize input lag.
As for input mode frequencies, most/many of the mid/high end models will have a 24Hz capable input mode. The Panasonic V10 2009 series has a 96Hz mode which is a 4:4 direct mapping to eliminate any judder when watching 24fps material such as BluRay movies.
As for energy use, I think Plasma has come within striking distance when you consider the larger sets over 42 inches. They drastically cut power usage with the new 2008 models, and have been making steady strides ever since. As for heat generation, my Panasonic 54" V10 series (2009 model) is very cool to the touch. The hottest spots I'd barely say are warm.
As for lag, most/many of the mid/high end models will have a "Game" mode which should cut out a lot of any post-processing image manipulation to minimize input lag.
As for input mode frequencies, most/many of the mid/high end models will have a 24Hz capable input mode. The Panasonic V10 2009 series has a 96Hz mode which is a 4:4 direct mapping to eliminate any judder when watching 24fps material such as BluRay movies.
djskribbles
Legend
Burn isn't really an issue anymore. You really have to abuse it to have permanent burn in. Temporal image retention may still be annoying (especially during the first few hundred hours).
As for power consumption, they have significantly reduced the power consumption in the past 2-3 years, but they still use a lot more than LCD (especially LED/LCD). With that said, it shouldn't make much of a difference on your power bills (unless you leave the TV on 24/7).
With Samsung LCD's, Auto Motion Plus is separated into two categories/sliders: Blur Reduction and MEMC/Frame interpolation. Blur Reduction is good, but many people (myself included) don't like the frame interpolation. I dunno how Samsung LCD's are now, but the ones I've owned, there was no such "Cinema Smooth" setting... 24p sources would automatically apply proper 5:5 pulldown. I know with their plasmas, you can enable/disable it (but I dunno why you'd want to disable it). With their LCDs, you can use AMP with 24p sources.
djskribbles
Legend
Chad B reviewed both the PN and UNC7000 (which has similar PQ to the xxC8000) and he rated the UN (LED/LCD) higher in "pop" (contrast), MLL (minimum luminance level) and color. But again, all that matters is what looks better to you. Plus there's a price difference between the two (the UN being considerably more). The UNC7000/8000 has horrible viewing angles too.
Last edited by a moderator:
If you want frame interpolation, the video look applied to movies you're describing, stick with a LCD.
I was talking about the abilty to disable the Auto Motion Plus(now that you guys explain to me what it is :smile
to view movie without that "live action feel". As for 3D I notice the flickering. I probably won't be purchasing a TV until March 2011 hopefully 3D performance will improve by then. Thanks everyone.djskribbles
Legend
Out of all LCD owners (all brands with frame interpolation/MEMC techniques), I bet less than 30% like the effect. I used to enable it for documentaries/animations, but I keep it disabled now, on both my 46A650 Samsung and now my main HT TV, an LG 55LH90.
One of the TVs in our store had a slight problem with burn in after being left on the Planet Earth title screen for ~10 hours a day every day except Sundays for a few months (the noobs before me never put the blu-ray player on repeat). That was the Samsung PN50B550 (last year's model). Otherwise none of our plasmas have experienced any burn in. We see some occasional image retention if a TV is abused (customers like to mess with things and not put them back the way they found them...), but that always goes away quickly. If it's bad you can use the whitewash feature for a few minutes. That has never failed me.
The only time I've been surprised by heat was on the PN50C7000 when it was left on 3D mode all day. It got kinda toasty, not hot enough to burn you and nothing dangerous but I imagine it is sucking down some serious wattage in 3D mode. Of course it would take years for the difference in your electric bill to equal the difference in price between the C8000 plasma and the C8000 LCD.
Yes, that is what I was trying to say in my previous post. The C8000 plasmas have that feature and it's called "Motion Judder Canceller". I dunno why they change the name from "Auto Motion Plus" on the plasmas but it's the same thing. This feature is not found on the C7000 series.
Billy Idol
Legend
Question:
I have set my panny to THX mode. And I have set my PS3 to full RGB (+super white).
In the KZ3 beta, I was asked to adjust the gamma until I see the logo barely: problem, I could not see it at all even with max ingame gamma setting?
I switched my PS3 back to limited RGB, could see the logo with about rather low in game gamma setting!
Could it be that the new panny does not support full RGB??
I have set my panny to THX mode. And I have set my PS3 to full RGB (+super white).
In the KZ3 beta, I was asked to adjust the gamma until I see the logo barely: problem, I could not see it at all even with max ingame gamma setting?
I switched my PS3 back to limited RGB, could see the logo with about rather low in game gamma setting!
Could it be that the new panny does not support full RGB??
Ya the UNC7000 should be compared to the PNC8000. And still you can get the 58" PNC8000 for the price of the 55" UNC7000.
djskribbles
Legend
Does your Panasonic have a "Black Level" setting? Most modern day HDTV's can be set to accept both, and it's usually labeled "Black Level" (or something similar).
But right now, yes... your TV is set to accept Limited (16-235 levels) and your PS3 is outputting Full (0-255) so levels below 16 and above 235 are being clipped. You need to either set your Panasonic to Full, or keep your PS3 set to Limited.
BTW, the "super-white" setting has nothing to do with games.... super-white is for YCbCr sources and games/xmb use RGB color space regardless. You can change the color space for BR/DVD to RGB or YCbCr.
edit: You might want to try adjusting the brightness on your TV too.
Last edited by a moderator:
This PlasmaGuide Review seems to completely disagree with Chad regarding the PNC7000 especially vs the UNC model
http://www.plasmatvbuyingguide.com/plasmatv/compare-reviews.php
djskribbles
Legend
Meh, you can use your own references. I respect Chad B's opinion because his reviews are very technical and he calibrates TV's for a living, and does a damn good job of it. Because he reviews each TV himself, the ratings obviously follow a consistent guideline whereas most sites will be reviewed by different people. Also, I can't think of a site that has a professional ISF calibrator on hand to review TV's. They will be average joe DIY guys with calibration equipment. Not to say their opinion doesn't matter, but I'd take Chad's opinion over most sites.
Just looking at their review scores, I don't know how much I'd trust them. They rate the Samsung Plasmas above both Panasonic and LG whereas most other sites rate the Panasonic and LG's higher (or at least Panasonic's). IMHO, the Panasonic G25, VT25 and LG PK550 should be rated higher than they are.
Just looking at their review scores, I don't know how much I'd trust them. They rate the Samsung Plasmas above both Panasonic and LG whereas most other sites rate the Panasonic and LG's higher (or at least Panasonic's). IMHO, the Panasonic G25, VT25 and LG PK550 should be rated higher than they are.
Last edited by a moderator:
Billy Idol
Legend
thanks for the info, I will look if I can find an option for black level?!
I did adjust the brightness as well, but I really had to increase it a lot...so that black, did look rather grey...which did not look good. Typically, I like the colors in RGB full much more, but in KZ3 all dark areas are 100% black...which is not good either. I hope there is something like a black level option for this TV...
EDIT: hm, I looked around in the menus..but could not find something like black level or HDMI RGB setings?!? seems that I have to set my PS3 to RGB limited?!?
Last edited by a moderator:
djskribbles
Legend
Ya, I don't remember this being an option on Panasonic Plasmas.
IMO, you don't really notice a difference between Limited and Full, as long as your TV and output device (in this case, the PS3) is on the same page and your TV is calibrated correctly.
IMO, you don't really notice a difference between Limited and Full, as long as your TV and output device (in this case, the PS3) is on the same page and your TV is calibrated correctly.
