Blu-Ray, HD-DVD will not need HDMI for Video until 2010

[pakotlar]

They will suffice fine for the DD track on these discs.

However, they dont have the bandwidth nor the digital content protection measures for 5.1/7.1 channels of 24/96 high resolution audio.

Why can a fiber optic cable not support the requisite bandwith? This is a seroius question. A single mode fiber optic cable can support up to 20Tb/s, which is way more than what HDMI can provide. I don't see a reason why an optic solution wouldn't work, except for some silly ICT flag restriction.

edit: DVD-Audio doesn't seem to support output via optic cable either. Why?

 

[cthellis42]

Yeah, but won't we be nearly on the post HD-DVD and Blu-ray formats by 2010? Well, maybe not if the HD spec is not going to change for a while.

It might, but that second part is key. The market pressure may well make it so content isn't so burdened in 2010, either.

If it is, it will suck--but at least new players (and appropriately-outfitted TV's) will be cheap by then. My hope is that the ICT flag will skip this generation of tech altogether. It's certainly upped the chances of that. Heh...

 

[expletive]

Why can a fiber optic cable not support the requisite bandwith? This is a seroius question. A single mode fiber optic cable can support up to 20Tb/s, which is way more than what HDMI can provide. I don't see a reason why an optic solution wouldn't work, except for some silly ICT flag restriction.

edit: DVD-Audio doesn't seem to support output via optic cable either. Why?

I honestly dont know the answer to some of your questions because i'm not sure of what the technical limitations are Coax or optical.

However, there have been standards where the actual hardware limitations exceeded what the spec actually supported.

For example, current HDMI cables can support 38-bit color in HD, but the HDMI 1.1 spec does not. Its not that an HDMI cable doesnt have the bandwidth to carry 38bit HD video, its that the spec for 1.1 doesnt support it. Now the indsutry could write a revised spec for SPDIF/optical to 1.2 or something but why bother when you have HDMI that can do everything? So when i say bandwidth limitations i mean the spec, not necesserily the general bandwidth limits of optical or coaxial cables overall.

 

[mckmas8808]

Once again proving Sony jumped the gun on Hardware HD implimentation. At least in their gaming platform.

Uhhh.... No. Buy the $600 version.

 

[Fox5]

They will suffice fine for the DD track on these discs.

However, they dont have the bandwidth nor the digital content protection measures for 5.1/7.1 channels of 24/96 high resolution audio.

Well, if the video is going to be unprotected, why not the audio?

Also, my reciever is capable of digital 5.1 24/96 audio, but it only has optical and coaxial, does that mean there's no actual way to get that audio quality? There's no higher quality dolby digital or DTS that could be used?

 

[expletive]

Well, if the video is going to be unprotected, why not the audio?

Also, my reciever is capable of digital 5.1 24/96 audio, but it only has optical and coaxial, does that mean there's no actual way to get that audio quality? There's no higher quality dolby digital or DTS that could be used?

High resolution audio (SACD and DVD-A) has been unprotected over analog since they were released. Most, if not all, current DVD-A and SACD players will output these formats over 5.1 analog RCA jacks.

Also, the new HD-DVD players will also output the new DD and DTS HD formats over these outputs (5.1 rca analog jacks). So technically the audio IS unprotected via analog in the way that the video is over component (which is analog too).

Your receiver can support 2 channel 24/96 over SPDIF/optical, which does exist. Other than a few proprietary high-end solutions ,there is no way to get 5.1 24/96 over SPDIF/Optical AFAIK. The highest quality 5.1 is DTS encoded at 1.5Mb/s. I believe any receiver that supports DTS will support this encoding rate. Not all of the discs which have DTS tracks are encoded at 1.5Mb, most are half that.

 

[Fox5]

High resolution audio (SACD and DVD-A) has been unprotected over analog since they were released. Most, if not all, current DVD-A and SACD players will output these formats over 5.1 analog RCA jacks.

Also, the new HD-DVD players will also output the new DD and DTS HD formats over these outputs (5.1 rca analog jacks). So technically the audio IS unprotected via analog in the way that the video is over component (which is analog too).

Your receiver can support 2 channel 24/96 over SPDIF/optical, which does exist. Other than a few proprietary high-end solutions ,there is no way to get 5.1 24/96 over SPDIF/Optical AFAIK. The highest quality 5.1 is DTS encoded at 1.5Mb/s. I believe any receiver that supports DTS will support this encoding rate. Not all of the discs which have DTS tracks are encoded at 1.5Mb, most are half that.

Hmm, I could have sworn that my audigy 2 zs came with a single sample on the installation disk that showcased 5.1 24bit 96hz audio using DTS I think.
My receiver doesn't have 6 channel analog, I don't know if it even can do 96hz 24bit stereo analog. Oh well, it was a comparative cheapie anyway.

 

[Powderkeg]

If Sony is planning on a 6 year lifespan for the PS3 then this will render the $499 version officially crippled half way through it's lifespan.

What's worse is the crippling will come when they would normally sell the most consoles, but with a $100 higher price tag for the non-crippled version, one must question how well it will actually sell since there is a good chance it will still be a $300 system by then.

 

[Bad_Boy]

If Sony is planning on a 6 year lifespan for the PS3 then this will render the $499 version officially crippled half way through it's lifespan.

Interesting point, I also wonder what happens to the HD-DVD addon for the 360, will they pretty much be useless in 2010?

 

[Sis]

Interesting point, I also wonder what happens to the HD-DVD addon for the 360, will they pretty much be useless in 2010?

Actually, the more troubling problem is that this is just an "agreement", as far as I can tell. There doesn't appear to be any written contract that 2010 is a hard and fast date. Also, is it all studios?

I think the better resolution would be if studios didn't shoot themselves in the foot and instead did away with the "digital-only" rule by removing the ICT flag altogether.

 

[cthellis42]

Money talks.

 

[mckmas8808]

Actually, the more troubling problem is that this is just an "agreement", as far as I can tell. There doesn't appear to be any written contract that 2010 is a hard and fast date. Also, is it all studios?

I think the better resolution would be if studios didn't shoot themselves in the foot and instead did away with the "digital-only" rule by removing the ICT flag altogether.

QUOTE me today. When ever the studios use ICT, that's when HD movies will fail. And more than likely they will kill it because they are just not smart.

 

[Arwin]

If Sony is planning on a 6 year lifespan for the PS3 then this will render the $499 version officially crippled half way through it's lifespan.

What's worse is the crippling will come when they would normally sell the most consoles, but with a $100 higher price tag for the non-crippled version, one must question how well it will actually sell since there is a good chance it will still be a $300 system by then.

To be fair, it is likely that this will only affect the early adopters - if HDMI with the old fashioned form of protection does indeed prove likely to become relevant after all, then you'll probably see HDMI become more common. Like the PStwo having upgraded DVD playback features among which Progressive Scan support and built-in iR.

Just like they're keeping their options open for the 'PSthree' to get two HDMI outputs later. Probably won't happen, but who knows, if the HDMI output gets cheap enough. The comment at any rate means that the RSX allows it. We'll see. I doubt it will happen, unless perhaps true 3D gaming takes off.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

If Sony is planning on a 6 year lifespan for the PS3 then this will render the $499 version officially crippled half way through it's lifespan.

By that point won't we be looking at a slimline PSThree, which'll likely come in one flavour with HDMI? And cost wise it's impossible to say this early. By then Sony may have a very healthy stream of online content sales, BRD license fees, Cell fees from CE goods using it, and be willing to take an extra $50 hit on the console, for example. The price of the hardware (BOM etc.) isn't the only factor affecting price here.

 

[Arwin]

By that point won't we be looking at a slimline PSThree, which'll likely come in one flavour with HDMI? And cost wise it's impossible to say this early. By then Sony may have a very healthy stream of online content sales, BRD license fees, Cell fees from CE goods using it, and be willing to take an extra $50 hit on the console, for example. The price of the hardware (BOM etc.) isn't the only factor affecting price here.

Absolutely agree. Say that BluRay hits it off, and that Cell hits it off in all markets it was designed for. Taking this to an extreme, at some point the 360 might be the only device left using a DVD-Rom player as well as the Xenon CPU. On the other hand, the Cell might be put into all HDtvs, BluRay players and so on, and become incredibly cheap, and ditto for BluRay drives. And so on. Even if Xbox caves in and releases a new-spec 360 with a BluRay drive to cut costs, that redesign may still cost them considerably.

I'm not saying this is what's going to happen, but I am saying that it is too early to tell.

 

[LunchBox]

MS has said they will have everything required for consumers to enjoy the HD-DVD format, i wonder if they meant the audio side too, or just the video.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/05/22/studios-wont-downgrade-hd-video-for-now/

I'm just wondering since I seem to recall that the HD-DVD drive add on connects through USB... Does it have enough Bandwidth to do HD-DVD standard???

 

[expletive]

I'm just wondering since I seem to recall that the HD-DVD drive add on connects through USB... Does it have enough Bandwidth to do HD-DVD standard???

I think the maximum bandwidth for HD video is something like 35 Mb/sec, USB 2's bandwidth is many times more than that, around 400 Mb/s.

 

[Powderkeg]

Interesting point, I also wonder what happens to the HD-DVD addon for the 360, will they pretty much be useless in 2010?

MS is releasing an HDMI cable that will let ALL of the 360's work through HDMI.

 

[rabidrabbit]

MS is releasing an HDMI cable that will let ALL of the 360's work through HDMI.

Is it official or still just a rumour?
Lik-Sang doesn't count for official info.

 

[London Geezer]

MS is releasing an HDMI cable that will let ALL of the 360's work through HDMI.

Is that true? I thought the X360 port just didn't support digital video at all, making it rather impossible for such a cable to work. Unless they somehow convert the analog signal into a digital one within the cable, but that's hardly desireable in terms of quality...
If the X360 does support Digital video, then the HDMI cable should be good.