Black XB360 120 Gig HDD + HDMI = $479

[quest55720]

Of course you are right, but I can't help but feel that the fact that the 11GB you had available on the 20GB drive and several game demos alone actually being more than 1GB factored in this a little as well. Surely MS wasn't expecting everybody to buy a media center pc? (though who knows, seeing how it is included in Vista in all but the most basic version).

But yeah, downloadable content is definitely the future. At the same time, I don't believe in 100% downloadable content for the next few years just yet. The internet just doesn't have the bandwidth yet, and people don't have the connections. But getting ready for it is definitely a wise decision, and their early steps have already been a success.

From MS actions they must have a similar opinion of yours. If they truely believed that xbox live media downloads were about to take off they would of priced the 120gig drive a lot lower to get more people to do it. I also think you are right for the most part but the high pricing of the downloads are just as much as a hinderance as bandwidth. It is not my basic high speed connection that has stopped me from downloading hd-movies it is the price is just a bit to high and the terms IRR are not very good.

 

[quest55720]

This 360 Elite is a major disservice to current 360 owners who bought a 360 Premium and expected it to be the standard and highest end model. With this, the current Premium and Core models becomes half baked.

For those that have yet to buy a 360 they are going to look at the 360 Elite as the standard. They are going to say to themselves that the 360 actually cost 479. Same reason how everyone regards the PS3 pricing at 600 and ignoring the 500 model. And that's how the majority of the average consumers is going to look at it.

In my opinion this is not a wise move by MS.

I agree with this for the most part in 1 move MS decreased the value of its current SKUs and increased the value of the PS3 SKUs. The price of the elite is just to close to the premium turning it into the tard pack Jr for many buyers. If MS would of dropped the price of the current SKUs by 50-100 to reflect thier reduced value and intoduced a limited edition elite at its current price I would of been much happier. Then in august introduce the permanent elite in white for 399-429 depending on the pricing of the premium. At the same time roll out the core and premium revision with HDMI just in time for halo 3.
I just wish I could figure out MS is trying to do here honestly.

 

[Platon]

I don't mind or care that they will be releasing a new elite console as I would most probably not gotten it anyway and I am sure many more feel like that instead of "cheated" that they had not opportunity to get the upgraded version, the premium has everything I need.

I just hope they have their priorites straight, which means that they are not selling this unit at a loss. If someone wants the absolute highest spec then sure provide it but also earn money on it. What they need to do is lower the price of the core and premium, that should be their first goal and that should not be hindered by releasing a high premium product...

 

[SugarCoat]

I agree with this for the most part in 1 move MS decreased the value of its current SKUs and increased the value of the PS3 SKUs. The price of the elite is just to close to the premium turning it into the tard pack Jr for many buyers. If MS would of dropped the price of the current SKUs by 50-100 to reflect thier reduced value and intoduced a limited edition elite at its current price I would of been much happier. Then in august introduce the permanent elite in white for 399-429 depending on the pricing of the premium. At the same time roll out the core and premium revision with HDMI just in time for halo 3.
I just wish I could figure out MS is trying to do here honestly.

You and the person you quoted only sound bitter to me. As if they had no right to add some new features that take NOTHING away from the previous versions as a gaming platform. They will never phase out component variations, way too few people can actually take advantage to use HDMI and they know that.

What they're doing is pretty obvious to me. Headed toward an all in one media box that will some day in the future be where you watch your movies and play you games from, disc free. This is the first small step towards that.

 

[Vic]

I'm getting utterly sick of comparisons to online bulk price of components.

Wifi is expensive? Yes. It's 802.11a. That makes it expensive. You're average PCI addin card is US $80 online. The *cheapest* one I can find locally online is $162nz. The 360 wifi adaptor is $180nz. This is retail pricing vs online bulk pricing. Plug and play vs a bloody pci card with a driver CD that probably isn't even in english.

Comparing the external addon hard drive to the cheapest drive you can find on newegg is ridiculous. Sure the capacity might be the same, but what about performance, noise levels, reliability? Do those things mean anything?. Not to mention security. I've been over this already in this thread...

People seem to forget that 95% of the console market wants an accessory that they simply plug in - and it works. Just try and imagine explaining to a 11 year old and his/her parents how to upgrade the hard drive in the PS3, while also retaining the data on the drive? They would think you are mad. Sure they will save, what, $20 at most? (as they will buy the drive locally), but will they care if they are too scared to actually use it?...
Hell I know programmers that have never swapped a hard drive.

ARghg,.


[edit]

Ok I wasn't a happy camper when I wrote this. And yes I realise I've directly contradicted myself in the first two lines.

I'm still not buying that.

Datel are relseasing a 160GB HDD for PS3 for £100, and this one simply plugs into the machine.

They're also releasing a Wi-fi adapter for £30, for when the 20GB PS3 is relseased in Europe.

And we know that cheaper versions exist.

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/gaming/a44577/playstation-3-160gb-hard-drive-launched.html

 

[Sis]

frankly who in the world operates on 'a' anyway on their home networks? No one, that's who.

I do

Honestly, I'm not sure how else you can stream video except on either a or n. Some may find success at g, but I think that'd be the exception, not the rule.

 

[Mr.Black]

Funny this is here in Canada the Elite is going to be $549 and the Pro is $499 so that isn't much of a price difference, the thin is though that when the Elite comes out here they may drop the price fo the Pro because if you use the actual Canadian American exchange rate the Pro is suppose to be about $460 so they could drop it to $459 or $449 and only lose a few dollars. I will wait until the Elite comes out and decide then which one to get.

 

[Diamond.G]

Spaceghost over at TXB has a hands on preview with some interesting tidbits.

 

[quest55720]

You and the person you quoted only sound bitter to me. As if they had no right to add some new features that take NOTHING away from the previous versions as a gaming platform. They will never phase out component variations, way too few people can actually take advantage to use HDMI and they know that.

What they're doing is pretty obvious to me. Headed toward an all in one media box that will some day in the future be where you watch your movies and play you games from, disc free. This is the first small step towards that.

I do admit to some bitterness because of first sony now MS ripping off gamers. I was hoping MS would make the right moves to make sony pay for what they are trying to pull with the PS3. Looks like MS is going to let sony off the hook and 599 or more will become the new launch console price in NA. It is to bad the customers of NA did the right thing by turning a nose up to the PS3 it is MS who failed us with this stupid move.

 

[Tap In]

.... it is MS who failed us with this stupid move.

sorry to keep repeating this but this is way to early to determine... premature even.

Surely, MS has a plan for a price drop but they can not announce it too far in advance.

Patience!

 

[quest55720]

sorry to keep repeating this but this is way to early to determine... premature even.

Surely, MS has a plan for a price drop but they can not announce it too far in advance.

Patience!

You are right if MS drops the price of the core/pro before the elite launches then my opinion will drastically change.

 

[Acert93]

(speaking to no one in particular)

Ok, let me get this straight.

MS launches a new SKU. This is an additional option for consumers on top of the already existing SKUs. The existing SKUs have not changed.

Choice is good for the consumer....whether or not you personally would go for this new SKU is pretty irrelevant.

What's all the fuss about?

I think the fuss is mainly because MS doesn't appear to be taking price drops seriously and instead focusing on introducing new premium-costing SKUs that appear to mainly target existing customers (i.e. hardcore gamers, a market already saturated fairly well).

The inclusion of the 'a' standard does justify(?) the expense of the WiFi add-on to an extent, but frankly who in the world operates on 'a' anyway on their home networks? No one, that's who. So Graham, I'll let you get some distance on the WiFi issue if you like - afterall that 'a' inclusion is worth the extra $60 or whatever, I'm sure

For the record there is a very good reason to include 802.11a:

802.11b and 802.11g standards use the 2.40 GHz (gigahertz) band, operating (in the United States) under Part 15 of the FCC Rules and Regulations. Because of this choice of frequency band, 802.11b and 802.11g equipment can incur interference from microwave ovens, cordless telephones, Bluetooth devices, and other appliances using this same band. The 802.11a standard uses the 5 GHz band, and is therefore not affected by products operating on the 2.4 GHz band.

On the memory card tangent, Walmart has 1GB SD cards for $15...

 

[DuckThor Evil]

I think the fuss is mainly because MS doesn't appear to be taking price drops seriously and instead focusing on introducing new premium-costing SKUs that appear to mainly target existing customers (i.e. hardcore gamers, a market already saturated fairly well).

I personally think they are taking price cuts VERY seriously, and that's why they are not cutting prices at the moment. Price cut is a very drastic measure that has serious impacts to your bottom line, right now Sony is not making it necessary for MS to do a price cut. I personally feel that MS has such a strong lineup for this year that a price cut is not needed, if they do a significat pricecut soon they basically sacrifice the revenue that they are getting from all their big hitters. Of course the importance of price cuts, mass market price and installed base are tied together very tightly... but

...I still think Jan or Feb 08 would be a great time to introduce a price cut. On the other hand if MS gets everything to 65nm soon they might be able to squeeze a price cut to boost their fall and christmass sales, I'm just not sure that's the best way to go, especially if Sony follows with a price cut on their own. At the moment I'm thinking that MS should only do a price cut if Sony does it first.

This new SKU is not meant to be a high volume unit for MS instead it's just an option to fill a small gap in the lineups higher end and maybe steal some sales from Sony in the process. In my opinion the X360 lineup feels more complete after this move, although I would like to see the HDMI port finding it's way to all SKUs. I would like to see a third HDD option as an accessory and a 60GB premium.

 

[Carl B]

For the record there is a very good reason to include 802.11a:

Well I didn't say that it doesn't serve a purpose, I said that nobody uses it! (though Sis corrected me on this)

And it's true, for streaming video feeds it's a better way to go; in that role the inclusion of 'a' in the adapter is noteworthy. It requires the owner to actively pursue having set up such a network though, and that will be a limited number of HTPC-centric folk. For the average gamer who's just trying to get online, 'a' means little, and the majority of WiFi routers in homes across the country/planet do not support it.

That doesn't mean that it's a bad accessory, or that it's price isn't more understandable in the context of 'a,' just that perhaps MS could offer a non-media-centric WiFi solution as well for say, $50.

 

[almighty]

At the end of it all, ive not so long purchased my 360 and i feel screwed. I have a loverly HDMI switch box with one spare slot and now Microsoft has and screwed me and all the other early 360 owners out of HDMI. Why a digital connection was'nt provided to begin with is just a mystery to me. Thanks a fucking bunch Microsoft.

 

[Inane_Dork]

A price cut 1.5 years after launch is not drastic by any definition of the term. It's expected. That's what the PS2 did, after all.

I think the H&E division just has more immediate requirements to get into the black and stay there. And that really sucks because they stand to lose a significant part of the mainstream market to the Wii. Hopfeully they'll at least drop price on the Core system to $250 once the revised hardware comes along.

 

[Acert93]

For the average gamer who's just trying to get online, 'a' means little, and the majority of WiFi routers in homes across the country/planet do not support it.

From a support standpoint and idiot proofing your product it is important though. You get a call from a customer:

Customer: The WiFi adapter I just bought doesn't work! It says I am getting interferance.
Support: What sort of wireless devices do you have in your home?
Customer: We have a couple 2.4GHz phones... stupid daughter never gets off hers... we have a wireless home network for our PC and children's PCs... our dog Ralfy has one of those new neato wireless collars to track him down... lets see we got a wireless [two minutes pass] oh, and our neighbors who share walls with us in the apartment have a couple 2.4GHz phones too.
Support: You need to switch to the 802.11a spectrum beacuse you have far too much interferance to run on b or g.

I used to work customer care for a small tech company and monitored calls and I can see the absolute logic in offering 1 product with all the features a typical customer would need for worse case scenarios. If a customer buys a b/g adapter and it drops too much then they have to then guy buy an a! And the adapter is a low volume perephrial so having a b/g and b/g/a adapters is costly, confusing, and a pain.

Seeing as wireless is not the ideal way to do online gaming to begin with offering a robust solution (a/b/g adapter) that also steers people toward the most stable and easy to setup solution (wired) solves a lot of problems.

And for those who NEED wireless and refuse to buy something they don't need: Buy a bridge. They can be found cheaply and even now Walmart has a Belkin's ethernet-to-wireless bridge for $60 that is specifically targetting the consoles (specifically the 360). So even if you don't like MS's "keep it simple" approach there are cost affordable solutions for the access point issue.

As for the HDD your screwed as MS didn't leave any doors open. I much prefer Sony's approach of allowing customers to use their own HDDs. Now if they had only gone 3.5" as standard I could squeeze in a 300GB HDD for pennies on the GB.

 

[Acert93]

At the end of it all, ive not so long purchased my 360 and i feel screwed. I have a loverly HDMI switch box with one spare slot and now Microsoft has and screwed me and all the other early 360 owners out of HDMI. Why a digital connection was'nt provided to begin with is just a mystery to me. Thanks a fucking bunch Microsoft.

You... a 360 fan...

Anyhow, no, they didn't screw you. You knew it didn't have HDMI and they made no claims to support such with the released units. HDMI has been in a state of flux, as has been all the various digital protection standards and was one of the reasons for the PS3 delay. If you bought a 360 based on what they told you and demonstrated you are pretty baseless in your feelings. Even now the HDMI version is much more expensive. The only thing you were deprived of was choice which arguably wasn't possible in the current state 16 months ago.

As I see it the only people who are going to be upset are those on the small world of the web who enjoy argueing about platform supremacy. The platform was announced, launched, and sold without HDMI or stated plans to support such with the available hardware. And the new expensive SKU doesn't deminish the abilities of the base SKUs so it really isn't important. It doesn't magically make the 360 you bought worse than the day you bought it.

Alas, the who SKU thing is gonna be a mess this entire generation though. Confusion and misdirection...

 

[Carl B]

Sure I mean I see what you're saying in terms of 'a' there, but for the 'stupid' family used in that example, they're still going to get cut-outs and such, even with the 'a'-enabled adapter, because frankly unless they knew enough to buy the much rarer/obscure 'a'-enabled WiFi router for their home network as well, they're going to be on the b/g anyway.

I realize that part of it all is MS is actively trying to foster a digital media environment centered around a PC/network to begin with, and so in that it all makes sense and is moot... but it still would have been nice if they offered a "media center" WiFi option and a "get on the Internet for the everyman" option. Because again, it's not even just about the adapter's level of support - it's the router the person has too.

 

[RobertR1]

Sorry but I don't feel "screwed" at all. I was never promised a HDMI cable or even hinted. Given the life of the console, I expected a HDMI version to eventually pop up and now it has. The new Elite doesn't change my current gaming experience. I connected my 360 to the TV and forgot about it.

However, my main motivation for the Elite would be purely aesthetic (black everything) and a quieter DVD drive. The HDMI is nice to have as is the bigger drive but then again I still have over 9gigs on my 20gig so that's not a concern either.