Arstechnica Reviews the PS3
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scooby_dooby
Legend
While I agree it's preferable not to reset on eject, I can see the logic behind it: why are you opening your disc tray in the first place? Do you just have a tendendy to "touch" your disc tray??
In the following sentance he says "This is a minor quibble, " lets not take thing completely out of context.
Curious: when you eject your current disc, and insert a new game, does it automatically boot into that? If it does then this shouldn't be listed as a negative. If you want to goto the dashboard, just use the controller, no need to get up and open the tray. As long as you can swap games without having to screw around...
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What is a "minor" quibble doing in the summary of "bad" points of the console then?scooby_dooby said:
He spends a full paragraph complaining about it too, it sounded more like he wanted to make a big deal out of it and then add the "minor quibble" to keep the politically correct tone of the article (which he constantly strayed out of anyway, but whatever).
It's just one of the examples where he takes stupid jabs at the system. Stuff like the constant repeating of "jokes" about ebayers didn't exactly help the article to come across as worth reading either. Even if a joke was funny, it wouldn't be funny anymore after I keep reading it over and over again in the same article.
Considering I have to get up, walk to the system, press the eject button, swap discs, close tray etc., pressing the "reset" button during that process isn't what I'd call screwing around, it rather feels normal.
That said, if for instance, I have disc glitches, I open the tray to dust the lens or something similar, I EXPECT the frigging game to NOT boot me out and force me to freaking restart - that I Would think is major screwing around.
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Sony does have an online future drawn up, just like Nintendo does. You are just not listen/reading the right articles or podcast.
Just so I'm straight with you... I should trust Sony in a podcast, but you confirm they've publicly lied about dates? Seems your faith in a brand is more than a little enthusiastic.
Why would I wait for Sony to update these features x months in the future. How long is "too long" to wait? A month? Three? Six? Why would I bother when I can have these things now, for less? So "next gen" for the patient few is now not starting until 2007?
Sony keep trying to tell us when this generation "really" starts, and it's a little frustrating. Let's face it - it started with the 360 in 2005, and Sony is still catching up.
scooby_dooby
Legend
Well I didn't realize it had a reset button, that's not too bad. I meant as long as you do't have to boot to the dash, and select play disc, or power on/power off, both of which would be annoying.
Avon_Implosion
Newcomer
from a present point of view...ie, while critiquing the console in its very present state-I agree in most respects with the review. While the hardware design is rich and seemingly future-proof, the software issue still remains (games, really is what i'm talking about..), as well as how shoddy the net features can be at times.
Still, I'm not terribly concerned; many of these problems can be fixed via firmware updates. And considering Sony's philosophy with the PSP, I expect many of these problems to be dealt with soon enough.
Still, I'm not terribly concerned; many of these problems can be fixed via firmware updates. And considering Sony's philosophy with the PSP, I expect many of these problems to be dealt with soon enough.
quest55720
Regular
It was a stupid decision to design it the way they did no doubt - but I don't see how it can be called a glitch. Most of the hardware we use in daily lives and over past few years works exactly the same (PCs and consoles).
In order for something to be a glitch it should be not working according to its design spec, and all you can argue is that it doesn't meet 360 scaling spec (and by that logic, PS2 being weaker then XBox1 was also a glitch
That said, I'm only referring to games on this one - BRD output missing 720P is very clearly a glitch/bug.
I don't agree with that every other HD device I hook to my TV has some sort of built in scaling. My direct tv hd-tivo, upscaling DVD player and 360 all have scaling function built in. The PS3 is one of the few HD devices I have heard of that does not have a built in scaler. When I buy a blue ray or HD-dvd player I know it will have a built in scaling unit. Jjust like the direct tv hd reciever I will purchase this christmas to go with the second hd-tv I am getting the family for christmass.
I rather enjoyed the ars article. Everyone is entitled to their point of view, and all views should be respected. I find it amazing how quickly and often people are ready to make excuses or trivialize issues wtr to their prefered system, and need almost constant validation of it's superiority. Maybe to justify their own purchase decisions or perhaps its simply a strong bond which formed through interaction with previous iterations of the device. The reasons are varied to be sure, but the results are all too familiar. Every commentary needing a rebuttal, no observation allowed to go unchecked, almost as if everyone reading or listening is unable to determine their own version of the truth. Not that every post has to be simply factual because I find the opinions even more entertaining. Please remember, it really is okay to just disagree. But alas I digress and have yet to deliver my own observation in this holy war.
Sony has been in the console space far longer than Microsoft, and been in development of the Cell and PS3 technologies for some time before work began on the 360. I have been pretty steady in my belief that Sony would continue to control the console landscape for the foreseeable future, on the strength of their brand, customer loyalty, and exclusive franchises. They have significant advantages over Microsoft in leverage with developers, consumer electronics companies, and retail relationships. I also think they have greater internal development resources compared to the amount of staff in Microsoft's XBox division. I find the observations of time constraints and resource limitations manifesting themselves in oversights or bad design decisions wtr to the PS3 interesting. My fear for Sony is that they will be unable to keep pace with Microsoft's unrelenting execution. It's reminiscent of 3Dfx not being able to maintain the pace of innovation and execution schedule of NVidia, even though they started off with large technical advantages. Most will remember that Windows began far behind the established OS's, but it evolved more rapidly.
And it's not that there is anything particularly wrong with letting the display handle adjusting to the various input frequecies, or not supporting cross game invites, messaging, and chat, or a unified friends list, no ubiquitous soundtrack support, or simply letting a game complain after eject; its all certainly been a staple of our past. But once you become accustom to having these things, its difficult to go back. I mean, I used to have to get up to change the channel on my TV; and now that I have discovered remote control, I really don't feel like doing that anymore. I'm not convinced that Sony can keep up. By the time the PS3 is hitting its stride, Microsoft will be releasing a new platform with even more capabilities. In 2011, I predict that these optical format arguments will have little relevance since digital distribution will be king. Consumers have spoken, just look at CD vs. online sales from 1998-2005. Hopefully Sony is already hard at work on the PS4, because they began this race with a big head start, and might already be falling behind. Of course, I am probably competely wrong; which I truly hope because there is nothing better as a consumer than some healthy competition. When you tell me how wrong I am, just be nice. Thanks.
Sony has been in the console space far longer than Microsoft, and been in development of the Cell and PS3 technologies for some time before work began on the 360. I have been pretty steady in my belief that Sony would continue to control the console landscape for the foreseeable future, on the strength of their brand, customer loyalty, and exclusive franchises. They have significant advantages over Microsoft in leverage with developers, consumer electronics companies, and retail relationships. I also think they have greater internal development resources compared to the amount of staff in Microsoft's XBox division. I find the observations of time constraints and resource limitations manifesting themselves in oversights or bad design decisions wtr to the PS3 interesting. My fear for Sony is that they will be unable to keep pace with Microsoft's unrelenting execution. It's reminiscent of 3Dfx not being able to maintain the pace of innovation and execution schedule of NVidia, even though they started off with large technical advantages. Most will remember that Windows began far behind the established OS's, but it evolved more rapidly.
And it's not that there is anything particularly wrong with letting the display handle adjusting to the various input frequecies, or not supporting cross game invites, messaging, and chat, or a unified friends list, no ubiquitous soundtrack support, or simply letting a game complain after eject; its all certainly been a staple of our past. But once you become accustom to having these things, its difficult to go back. I mean, I used to have to get up to change the channel on my TV; and now that I have discovered remote control, I really don't feel like doing that anymore. I'm not convinced that Sony can keep up. By the time the PS3 is hitting its stride, Microsoft will be releasing a new platform with even more capabilities. In 2011, I predict that these optical format arguments will have little relevance since digital distribution will be king. Consumers have spoken, just look at CD vs. online sales from 1998-2005. Hopefully Sony is already hard at work on the PS4, because they began this race with a big head start, and might already be falling behind. Of course, I am probably competely wrong; which I truly hope because there is nothing better as a consumer than some healthy competition. When you tell me how wrong I am, just be nice. Thanks.
The only thing I would highlight is Sony is not competing with MS's Xbox division. They are competing with Microsoft itself. The OS, development tools, HD DVD player development, Live Anywhere tie in (with cell phones and PDAs), video-on-demand all leverage on expertise, plus well-tested and already fully integrated platforms and teams in other divisions.
In terms of industry support, MS is also using its relationships with Windows partners to negotiate for position and cutting deals.
So it's not accurate to compare Sony Playstation 3 team size/development timeframe with just MS Xbox team size/development timeframe.
That said, Sony still suck at execution (especially in the marketing area). PS3 represents an initial step/platform for its divisions to work together. Hopefully they can learn from all this, regroup and move forward quickly. Even so, for the PS3 all-in-1 entertainment vision, they will still need partners in certain areas to match MS's software expertise, network operation and wealth.
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I certainly don't mean to imply that MS doesn't leverage knowledge, IP, research, experience, etc. from itself. Quite the contrary. Having a clear idea of interactivity between systems, resource reuse, organizational skills, and process improvement is what makes them good at what they do. If Microsoft is able to leverage technology it has develop for PC's, mobile devices, etc. then surely nothing prevented Sony from growing and improving their OS, toolsets, and technologies over the years. And those technologies probably had greater relevance since their origin would have been in the same field. Surely Sony has been looking at their competition starting with the Dreamcast back in 1999 and began development of their own online environment and vision of the future. With as many products and distribution channels they have, experience from previous launches, supply chain management, etc. there is no reason Sony couldn't manage a worldwide launch if MS is able to on just their second go. Sony manages development and entertainment studios around the world. If they were understaffed to hit their UI, media functionality, and online milestones, are they so strapped financially they couldn't secure the resources they needed to acheive their goals? Point is they had all the opportunity in the world, and IMO they simply don't execute as well.patsu said:
I actually think their marketing is great, and that they do an awesome job of selling cool and identifying with their target audience. I too hope they can improve.patsu said:
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deathkiller
Newcomer
I don't think that it have a reset button. In the PSP you can do two things:
1-Use home button, change disc, init the new game from the dash.
2-Turn off the PSP, change disc, turn on the PSP.
If you have UMD autoload the second option is faster.
In the PS3 if it is like the PS2 turning off the console means putting the console in standby (you have a swich to fully turning off the console) so it is as fast as a reset would be and you won't see the dash as long as you have autoload activated.
It is designed this way since PS1 era and changing it would make some PS1 games unplayable since you need the game being executed while changing discs (you can't save in disc 1 and load the save in disc 2 in some games).
Sure, but MS has a ten+ year monopoly with a well-tested and comprehensive Windows platform, plus fully integrated software teams. While Sony has a 3-4 year start beginning with the first Cell roll-out and a forward investment in hardware and software. Businesswise, there will be gaps between the two in the software area in terms of depth and aggressiveness.
Yes and no... many of the recent development in the console space has more relevance in the open PC world (and vice versa). That's why MS can leverage on their existing PC work. At the same time, the game console space has always been a closed one. Sony still have much to do to open it up and stack more services on top.
Certainly, at the same time, MS's money machine allows them to toy with hardware independent OS, development tools, extensive network infrastructure for MSN, hotmail, WebTV, DirectX, Windows Media Services, PDA and Cell phone OS, Dreamcast, Xbox, ... etc. etc. since early 90s
We all know that the worldwide launch was disrupted because of diode shortages. Whether Blu-ray is a mistake or not, time will tell.
I'm not saying they executed well. I'm just pointing out that Sony is competing with the entire MS. Your original article only compares Sony with the Xbox division, which I think is inaccurate.
As for execution, MS has its own fair share of problems but they are making all the right marketing moves for about a year now.
There are many branches in marketing. I am specifically talking about their product marketing and PR in this case. In these areas, their recent performance left a lot to be desired.
EDIT:
Just to give some examples on Sony's lacking marketing here: http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=877618&postcount=99. We can fault those chaps in NY Time and Times for being biased, or folks like me for being ignorant of PS3 goodies, but Sony is really shortchanging itself by not seeding and pushing the gamers a simple framework for evaluating PS3 purchase decision. Keep harping about piecemeal features (without highlighting the demos/apps/titles that deliver the differences) and Sony being #1, they will alienate themselves from mainstream more. Even if certain features are not available on day 1 (It's OK !), recognizing the shortfalls and pre-empting them will go a long way.
Can't Sony include a HDMI and a component cable for every reviewer ? Or did they forget to send reviewer packages to NY Time and Times reviewers ?
Are you sure the world is on the same page as you ?
Why keep quiet when USD600 is used as a reference price without highlighting PS3's values ? Why is Sony not reminding people that basic but extremely useful features like Wifi and larger hard disk make a difference to consumers at large ? Was there an evaluation form for the reviewers to rate SIXAXIS in Blast Factor, Resistance, MotorStorm demo ? (to remind and encourage them to try it out and comment) ? What the hell is Blu-ray LIVE, Blu-Wizard ? What titles (will) use them ? Even though people complain about PS3 being too expensive, they will still love unique features for their 500-600 dollar machines. Where is your site that showcase these unique capabilities (instead of boring tables) ? The PlayBeyond site is cool but it's not enough. Where is that 1 central place people go to for Playstation info like these and for bug report ? What data do/will you use to coordinate and prioritize feature rollout ?
For something as unique as the console web browser, how can the online store load slowly on launch day ? Are you under DoS attack
? Isn't the thing Akamaised (to speed up browsing and download experiences, especially when background downloading is not available) at least for the launch period or until the infrastructure is matured ? I just read one's post that Japanese gamers can launch the web browser within certain game, is there a well-known place to understand why Sony wants people to launch the browser within a game ? What is Sony's larger entertainment framework ? Does the reviewer package include materials/footage on these unique points ? These info are available to the devs and media, but they are not given enough air-time.For that matter, why is Sony not talking to its fanbase directly (access to Playstation Network please ?).
etc. etc.
These go to the marketing department and the top management for their utter failure to work together. If engineering is having problems, there are usually marketing ways to support the group effort. There are also many details in marketing to work out (enough to drive a grown man nuts). Someone in Sony has to take the time to work through these "boring" details (yes, assuming they have the time).
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Actually, from a development point of view, having the OS take control when the disc is ejected IS the simplest solution. Otherwise the game must handle disc ejects at any point in time which can be quite messy and error prone. If the game uses multiple discs it just notifies the OS to not reboot. Simple as that.
i dont get it !
20 years ago Microsoft was making software and they were happy about it
20 years ago Sony made hardware and they were happy about it
Now Microsoft want to make hardware as well as software and they suck at both (Vista anyone?)
Now Sony wants to make hardware as well as software and they are struggling with it.
My point is that why they dont just stick to what they do best and stop wasting times on other venture when they dont have the expertise to do so.
20 years ago Microsoft was making software and they were happy about it
20 years ago Sony made hardware and they were happy about it
Now Microsoft want to make hardware as well as software and they suck at both (Vista anyone?)
Now Sony wants to make hardware as well as software and they are struggling with it.
My point is that why they dont just stick to what they do best and stop wasting times on other venture when they dont have the expertise to do so.
Both are experiencing growing pains as they enter new frontier. They will find their places and then start to specialize (in different ways) again. But what you have just said "My point is that why they dont just stick to what they do best and stop wasting times on other venture when they dont have the expertise to do so." is Nintendo's strategy... and it seems to contradict your sig.
Mind you, it's a powerful strategy. Afterall that's how Apple won the online music space. I just find the irony amusing (No offense though !).
Mind you, it's a powerful strategy. Afterall that's how Apple won the online music space. I just find the irony amusing (No offense though !).
Then you should have tried to get it online. It rocks.
I've played a lot of mouse + keyboard on my Dreamcast, but GoldenEye and Halo are great too. I like the (wireless) controller way better when I'm on my couch too.
Optical discs are error prone by definition - if people want to write I/O subsystems that don't handle any errors they shouldn't develop for machines using optical discs (or any removable media for that matter).Barbarian said:
At any rate - none of this is relevant to the end user - from my perspective, a game shouldn't reboot just because I took a disc out, and I am completely sure there are milions of people that agree with me on that. If such a feature does exist, it should be optional under user control, and preferably not the default setting.
PS2 has a single reset/power button(tap/hold), and on the PSP home button is at your finger tip as you're already holding the whole thing (though an extension to home menu that would allow to autoboot new game could be a welcome addition). For PSP it's even more relevant that shouldn't boot you out of games because there's always ways how UMD tray could open accidentally when on the go (granted many of those would be dangerous to PSP itself, but the point stands).deathkiller said:
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There's LOADS more boring stuff to do! Paint a wall, sit in front of it and look at it until it's dry.
Or playing Final Fanstasy 12....
... Ok i dropped the ball....
Was this one posted already? It's older though. But it seems like a nice example of saying the same thing in a different way.
http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4216&Itemid=34
http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4216&Itemid=34
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