Apparantly the PSP2 exists.

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I'd like to question you on these points in particular:

What defines the "console experience on a handheld" and why do you think that pre-iPhone the vast majority of gamers, both core and casual were happy to put money down on a NDS or PSP over playing tetris clones and snake on their mobile phone?
For DS, because of Nintendogs and Brain Training and the novelty of the touch interface. For PSP, as much for media playback I think. There wasn't much comparable for the price and for a couple of years.

I'm not saying Tetris and snake is good enough for everyone forever. We want advances. I just think the advances have to fit the 'little game' idea. My definition of "console experience on a handheld" is the types of games people enjoy sinking hours at a time in on a large screen. Those same games that define the consoles (Gears, Halo, Assassin's Creed, GT with steering wheel, Mass Effect, FF, Uncharted, etc.) aren't as good on a 5" screen with analogue nubs and digital controls. If you're going to sink hours into a game, you'd rather do it in the comfort of the big screen not getting eye fatigue or cramped hands. The portable as I see it is more for filling in time, or taking on holiday. That's when dip-in, dip-out titles like Layton and Locoroco and Angry Birds come into their own, and games of that standard can be achieved on a smart phone. Even more involving games like DQ are an okay fit for mobiles, providing the deeper game experience of an FF but with visuals that aren't demanding of the hardware. DS's DQ didn't suffer as a game for being a significantly less powerful hardware than PSP.

Once you get to a graphical and performance bracket beyond what a smart phone can do, you are looking at sophisticated games like shooters or graphically ornate RPGs, which are a gamestyle I don't think is valued on portables. With other games, that power isn't needed to make the game; developers will just create a game that fits the device. 2D has had a resurgence.

Again you say that in a handheld experience you don't want games that you can sink hours into... i completely disagree! Games like Pokemon, Monster Hunter etc and all the big traditional handheld games, even the biggest iPhone games are fleshed out games that are addictive enough to let you sink hours into them if you want to.
That's true, and there's always room for some such games. But you don't need the world's best graphics to enable them and get the sales. If the difference between 3DS and PSP2 is just PSP2 offers more power, what exactly will that offer regards game experiences that 3DS can't? For the games that would benefit, like SOCOM say, if 3D doesn't prove to be any value to FPSes, you're still creating a platform for those who want FPSes that look pretty on the go, which isn't by my guess 20+ million. ;)

Games that are so simple and content sparse that you can't put time into if you want to are far too shallow and wouldn't even do well on the iPhone platform.
Don't get me wrong, I was never advocating a simple-games system. I was saying Sony shouldn't put all the eggs in the core gamer market, wanting to bring all their PS franchises to the handheld. LBP on PSP2 might be awewsome and something only PSP2 could pull off for a few years, but it won't be enough to sell tens of millions of PSP2s. In order to sell lots and lots, Sony have to offer both the bestest, deep games and the 'little games' and the novel experiences people want. I've known people buy iPods just for apps and particular simple games that use the motion sensing. It's that wide appeal that has enabled iOS to do so well. And regards the little games and deeper games, many can be done on smartphones just with less graphical zing, which is why investing in graphical zing won't net Sony more interest on its own.

They are merely platforms for games and hundreds of millions of people have bought and played on Nintendo and Sony (collectively) dedicated gaming devices in the past because they clearly wanted more than simply, shoddy $2 shallow content-sparse games.[./quote]It's hard to quantify how PSP buyers have valued 'console' games. There have been plenty of handheld specific games, like Locoroco and Exit, that are probably too simple for a console game (though would work with the new download options of this gen). There were also buyers wanting it for its media functions. I wouldn't look at PSP's total sales to date and equate that with the number wanting a deeper game experience in a handheld. I'd look at particular games sales, and I don't think those have been that great.

The market of these games has never really existed before however it would still be silly to think that it isn't there, even if it may or may not be significant.
But is it significant enough to bet the farm on?! There's going to be some interest, but it needs to be substantial for PSP2 to be a financial success. Sony aren't in the financial position to be able to be a niche player. And looking at the future of SonyNet and selling content to Sony devices, PSP2 is bound to be the portable interface to that content, so Sony want that in as many hands as possible so when it comes to buying movies and TV series, people choose the Sony content over alternatives.

IMO a handheld platform has to be mass-market appeal nowadays, growing tens of millions each year. I don't think with the cost of RnD and marketing and all the competition, a niche is viable for a serious multinatioanl corporation wanting to make big money.
 
For me…

If PSP2 is yet another powerful portable console, then I'll just continue to toy with my PSP-1000. I'd only be interested if there's some exclusive and compelling content/services on PSP2.

For a portable game console, I think it should allow group play. All the existing portable consoles come with a "private" display. If PSP2 (or a companion dock) has an inexpensive, and portable projector, then I will most likely buy one for my bedroom and our outings. It would allow people to play together on a shared screen (e.g., using their cellphones, DS3 or even Move as controllers). I can also leave the console on a "party table" and let others play music/movie. To me, this is one of the important differentiators for a dedicated portable console vs a phone experience. I certainly won't leave my cellphone for others to touch.

[EDIT: It would be a good use for the rumored PSP2 power. The console would be plugged to a power source, and I can easily project PSP2 output onto a wall or a portable screen]

My geekhood would also hope that PS3 can use PSP2 resources for some tasks (and vice versa).

A mobile modem to achieve anywhere connection would be excellent. But it won't differentiate from cellphones.


EDIT 2: This is the projector I'm talking about:
http://theprojectorblog.blogspot.com/2011/01/sonys-new-hd-camcorders-featuring-built.html

The line of camcorders that Sony introduced at the CES consisted of HD camcorders that come complete with a built-in projector. Sony says that the line will be known as the PJ series. There will be three different models known as the HDR-PJ50V, the HDR-PJ30V, and the HDR-PJ10.

I’m honestly very impressed with this series of camcorders that Sony will be releasing. The devices will all be able to project video and images up to 60 inches in size when standing 18 feet away. Each of the camcorders in the series will have stereo speakers built into them with S-Master digital amplifier and Clear Phase technologies.
 
http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2011/01/21/ps_meeting/

It's well known now that Sony will be having a big Tokyo press event on the 27th where it will unveil the PlayStation Portable 2. An analyst has clued us in to the event's name: "PlayStation Meeting."

Sony used to have PlayStation Meeting events periodically, but Thursday's installment will be the first event with the name in six years.

The last time Sony had a PlayStation Meeting was July 25, 2005.



Analyst Yasuaki Fujima mentioned the PlayStation Meeting name in a Tweet earlier this week. He said that we can probably expect unexpected major announcements simply because the timing of the event comes ahead of Sony's third quarter earnings announcement, which is scheduled for February 3. He also added that it's possible to view the event as Sony's means of dealing with the 3DS by turning the attention onto itself.

The revival of the PlayStation Meeting name sounds like a perfect occasion to take the lid of PlayStation Portable's successor.

I thought they had almost yearly Playstation "Meetings" for retailers after PS3 launched ?
 
The problem with extremely advanced devices is that they can exceed the needs of the end user whilst at the same time being too expensive for the majority of users to want to adopt over other devices which do the same thing in either a much lower price point or in a more convenient way. If you consider the highest selling games on the DS, most of them are games which could be ported to the iPhone if Nintendo released their I.P. or if some sneaky guy ported them for jailbroken iPhones. So already the widest portion of the present handheld market doesn't seem to care for advanced performance features, that means that with the design of the PSP2 Sony has to rely on retaining their old userbase whilst at the same time drawing 'console gamers' onto their handheld.

Given the success of the DS, iPhone/Touch, iPad, soon Android/WP7 and Wii as well as various other casual PC portals and games what proof is there that the kind of cinematic action adventure type game you play on the DX9 home consoles is the kind of game even a significant minority of people actually want to play? Compound this further, you actually have a viable competitor for this market with the 3DS which seems to bridge between the core market and the wider market far better than the Wii or DS ever did. How can Sony compete when they don't seem to be going for the widest market and yet the narrow high value segment is also being contested by a resurgent Nintendo in that arena?
 
The thing is handheld, whatever processors that's inside of PSP2, won't be too big that it will be expensive to manufacture. My guess is they'll offer several level of storage sizes with differeing entry prices much like IPod.
 
From my experience on the psp, iphone, ipad and android, the games that attempt to mimic console titles on lesser hardware tend to be the least enjoyable. The mimicry tends highlight the deficiencies of the hardware that I can't seem to reconcile with "its just a portable device what should I expect", thereby allowing me to enjoy the cutdown experience.

I don't tend to play 3d based titles on portables, I find them ugly with their limited textures and polygon counts. To me they are just attempts at mashing a console game into a portable enviroment. I find more enjoyable experiences with games whos developers seem to embrace the portable platform and design their games around the hardware and what it does well. I like playing games that I'll fire up despite the 360 and PS3 sitting in front of me and not because Im away from my consoles.

Games don't have to be deep and complicated in nature to have compelling gameplay that encourages you to invest hours into them. Just look at Tetris.
 
The thing that grabs me with the 3DS that doesn't exist to the same extent with Sony is past console games.

I love the fact that 3DS will have nes , super nes , gb , gba games avalible through the virtual console. Many of these games are perfect for on the go gaming . I don't need a 60inch tv to play mario brothers. The first time i beat it , i was using an old 12 inch tv that my parents gave to me ( I was 5) for my room with my consoels that use to sit on our kitchen counter and my dad used it as an excuse to buy a 19 inch for it.

Sony has older games to an extent. But I don't know how well ps1 era games hold up nor ps2 era games. I don't think they have the same feel of the older generation games .
 
The thing is handheld, whatever processors that's inside of PSP2, won't be too big that it will be expensive to manufacture. My guess is they'll offer several level of storage sizes with differeing entry prices much like IPod.

That's a good bet. And it won't take much to be far more powerful than a 3DS. If you slapped a d-pad, dual analog sticks and a set of playstation buttons on the iPod Touch hardware you'd already have a more powerful, cheaper system. And Sony has an extra year's worth of hardware development to widen the gap. I don't think the hardware needs to be exotic. A dual core ARM with SGX GPU or maybe a Tegra 2 design with 1 GB RAM, 16 GB of flash and a QHD shouldn't be that hard to do at $249 for release this fall. Offer multiple storage and cellular data options to reap some of that Apple-style profit margin on the high end and that will help. Not to mention it will be perfectly suited as a portable internet and media device and having touch controls would make iPhone game ports natural.
 
From my experience on the psp, iphone, ipad and android, the games that attempt to mimic console titles on lesser hardware tend to be the least enjoyable. The mimicry tends highlight the deficiencies of the hardware that I can't seem to reconcile with "its just a portable device what should I expect", thereby allowing me to enjoy the cutdown experience.

Yap. Title selection is really important for the new portable console. They don't have to be all power and nothing else. If the games are captivating and exclusive, then I think the portable consoles should do fine. The difference (in user experience, not computing power) needs to be REALLY obvious though... like 3DS's display tech.

EDIT:
Kaz Hirai talked about increased PSN revenue in 2011.

His Reader app is finally available for Android phones:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/21/sony-reader-app-finally-available-for-android-only-works-with-2/

Sony was prepping some Reader apps to go along with its physical Pocket, Daily, and Touch Edition e-readers, and while it may have missed that December release date, the Android version of the app is now available in the Market. The free app is pretty much what you'd expect -- you can log in with your username and it automatically syncs previously purchased books, and like the e-readers, it also supports ePub and PDF formats.

...

Sony has confirmed for us that the app will only work with handsets that run Android 2.2 and higher, which is incredibly ironic considering most Sony Ericsson handsets are, you know, still stuck with 2.1. Of course, it looks like that PlayStation Phone will work just fine when it's finally released, but that's neither here nor there
 
From my experience on the psp, iphone, ipad and android, the games that attempt to mimic console titles on lesser hardware tend to be the least enjoyable. The mimicry tends highlight the deficiencies of the hardware that I can't seem to reconcile with "its just a portable device what should I expect", thereby allowing me to enjoy the cutdown experience.
If PSP2 did look that good, maybe not as good as PS360 but a good step up from PS2 and with lots of AA for IQ, do you think you'd value those console titles in a handheld?
 
If it's straight up visual improvement, for a small screen, people like me may care enough, or may not be able to tell the difference between PSP2 games and powerful cellphone games.

The paradox is: at the back of my mind, I may still compare the PSP2 games with Uncharted 2, Killzone, etc. from time to time.
 
If PSP2 did look that good, maybe not as good as PS360 but a good step up from PS2 and with lots of AA for IQ, do you think you'd value those console titles in a handheld?

Not really. Im probably going to own a PS4 and a X720 so having a PS360 in my pocket filled with games like the ones I played on consoles for the last 5 years is not appealing.

I find that a portable library is more valuable to me when creating an alternative experience. We've all discuss the negatives of the console ecosystem. Publishers spending massive amounts into a handful of games of a limited set of genres. Why would I want a miniature portable version of that world. I like my android phone and my ipad game library because it allows me to engage in games distinctly different to the standard fare of consoles.
 
Not really. Im probably going to own a PS4 and a X720 so having a PS360 in my pocket filled with games like the ones I played on consoles for the last 5 years is not appealing.
Which is how I imagine most core gamers feel. The idea of targeting these gamers still feels wrong to me.
 
For me…

If PSP2 is yet another powerful portable console, then I'll just continue to toy with my PSP-1000. I'd only be interested if there's some exclusive and compelling content/services on PSP2.

For a portable game console, I think it should allow group play. All the existing portable consoles come with a "private" display. If PSP2 (or a companion dock) has an inexpensive, and portable projector, then I will most likely buy one for my bedroom and our outings. It would allow people to play together on a shared screen (e.g., using their cellphones, DS3 or even Move as controllers). I can also leave the console on a "party table" and let others play music/movie. To me, this is one of the important differentiators for a dedicated portable console vs a phone experience. I certainly won't leave my cellphone for others to touch.

[EDIT: It would be a good use for the rumored PSP2 power. The console would be plugged to a power source, and I can easily project PSP2 output onto a wall or a portable screen]

My geekhood would also hope that PS3 can use PSP2 resources for some tasks (and vice versa).

A mobile modem to achieve anywhere connection would be excellent. But it won't differentiate from cellphones.


EDIT 2: This is the projector I'm talking about:
http://theprojectorblog.blogspot.com/2011/01/sonys-new-hd-camcorders-featuring-built.html

And it was voted BEST CES 2011 product in it's category. I hadn't thought of other uses for the projector..... good find/thought. Considering the PSP2's power a cradle/charging station could also include connections for mouse/keypoard and 1080P screen so that it could double as a PC. Wondering at the touch pad on the bottom. Could the PSP2 have the same HIGH brightness (visible in daylight) as the camera display.

Rumors have the PSP2's screen as HD which would be useless in a smaller screen. Retina like?

Size (smaller is better) does matter for desk space in a teenagers room.
 
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The thing that grabs me with the 3DS that doesn't exist to the same extent with Sony is past console games.

Well, we'll see. If Sony is at all clever, they will make sure the PSP2 can play all PS1 and PS2 games via digital download. There's easily a big enough library between those two paltforms to get an audience around.
 
Well, we'll see. If Sony is at all clever, they will make sure the PSP2 can play all PS1 and PS2 games via digital download. There's easily a big enough library between those two paltforms to get an audience around.

Like I said in my post , those games don't lend themselves to portable systems. I can't really see the majority of people clamering to play a call of duty from the ps2 or a slew of games that have been updated multiple times since.

With nintendo there are a slew of games we've all played a million times. Mario , zelda but then there are games from the gb and gba that many people haven't even seen for decades. There are some gb games i have fond memorys of that i haven't seen since the early 90s.

I mean can you think of any games that sony hasn't updated ? The ps2 is still fresh in everyones minds and you can still buy it on the shelves. Are there that many lost ps1 games that we haven't seen on other platforms or updates to them that renders them moot
 
But it is targeting those who want to plug their 'tablet' into their TV so surely that feels right to you at the same time?! :p
If they go that route, definitely. At the moment we don't really know what the gameplan for PSP2. We only know one feature it has got, one it possibly hasn't. Sony could pull out a cleverly designed system and the whole core-gamer talk so far has been mostly food for the gaming press, while the final product could be a true portable, plug in to TV and use controllers type device as I've been suggesting. If it has camera and Move support, it'd be an uber-portable Wii 2, with better graphics, same functionailty plus on the go, which I think could generate interest. Might not be terribly useful, but could generate interest, and that's the important thing to standing out.

Hopefully within a week we'll know exactly what PSP2 is.
 
For me…

If PSP2 is yet another powerful portable console, then I'll just continue to toy with my PSP-1000. I'd only be interested if there's some exclusive and compelling content/services on PSP2.

For a portable game console, I think it should allow group play. All the existing portable consoles come with a "private" display. If PSP2 (or a companion dock) has an inexpensive, and portable projector, then I will most likely buy one for my bedroom and our outings. It would allow people to play together on a shared screen (e.g., using their cellphones, DS3 or even Move as controllers). I can also leave the console on a "party table" and let others play music/movie. To me, this is one of the important differentiators for a dedicated portable console vs a phone experience. I certainly won't leave my cellphone for others to touch.

[EDIT: It would be a good use for the rumored PSP2 power. The console would be plugged to a power source, and I can easily project PSP2 output onto a wall or a portable screen]

My geekhood would also hope that PS3 can use PSP2 resources for some tasks (and vice versa).

A mobile modem to achieve anywhere connection would be excellent. But it won't differentiate from cellphones.


EDIT 2: This is the projector I'm talking about:
http://theprojectorblog.blogspot.com/2011/01/sonys-new-hd-camcorders-featuring-built.html

And someone has a docking station projector for the ipod. Both the Sony camera you reference and the iPod docking projector got best of class awards at CES.

http://hometheater.about.com/od/ontheroadatces/ss/The-Best-Home-
Theater-Products-Exhibited-At-Ces-2011_15.htm


ces2011ipodprojector.jpg
 
If they go that route, definitely. At the moment we don't really know what the gameplan for PSP2. We only know one feature it has got, one it possibly hasn't. Sony could pull out a cleverly designed system and the whole core-gamer talk so far has been mostly food for the gaming press, while the final product could be a true portable, plug in to TV and use controllers type device as I've been suggesting. If it has camera and Move support, it'd be an uber-portable Wii 2, with better graphics, same functionailty plus on the go, which I think could generate interest. Might not be terribly useful, but could generate interest, and that's the important thing to standing out.

Hopefully within a week we'll know exactly what PSP2 is.

28nm is coming on line in IBM and it's partner plant in NY. Tegra 2 from what I hear is 40nm. Nvidia Tegra 2 was rumored to be in the PSP2, is in the LG cell phone Sony is trying to keep out of the US. It does have a 1080P HDMI output.

According to rumors, the PSP2 has been having both battery life and heat dissipation issues which are not seen on the LG cell phone with the Tegra 2. Either the PSP2 is not using a Tegra 2 or possibly Sony did another custom deal with Nvidia for a Cell/Tegra hybrid. Delays in releasing the PSP2 (October) could be waiting for 28nm 4 SPU cells which would reduce heat and extend battery life.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra-2.html
 
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