But Zen 3 is not the same architecture. It is a new Family model 19.
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But Zen 3 is not the same architecture. It is a new Family model 19.
That comes down to what counts as different architecture, according to AMD Bobcat is different architecture from Jaguar/Puma. And even Hygon Dhyana is counted as different architecture from Zen even with it's miniscule changes.
It's still Zen. We can expect something entirely new after Zen 5.
itsmydamnation
Veteran
Zen is just a name.
Forest Norrod said its a new architecture.
People like Jim keller have said you cant iterate gen after gen designs anymore you leave to much on the table being tied to 5-10 year old design decisions.
A new architecture could still keep plenty of the old, no point reinventing the wheel when an area isn't a major bottle neck.
He said "right in line with what you would expect from an entirely new architecture."
These names mean something. Zen was introduced in 2017, I don't think that AMD has resources to build a new uarch from scratch in just 3 years. It was possible 20 years ago, not now.
But to limit the mess, beta BIOSes will only be available to verified customers with supported 400-series motherboard and receipt for Zen 3 CPU. At the same time you will permanently lose support for many previous supported CPUs, downgrading BIOS isn't supported. Also unknown is how big portion of mobos will get the beta support, they could limit it even to those with 32 MB BIOSes
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Deleted member 13524
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How are they promising support for 16MB BIOSes that reportedly wouldn't have enough storage to adapt to the new chips?
I too thought that cutting support for all B450 and X470 chipsets was a major asshole move, but this is also opening a can of worms on itself.
I too thought that cutting support for all B450 and X470 chipsets was a major asshole move, but this is also opening a can of worms on itself.
There is enough room in the BIOS for Zen 3, that's not a problem. The issue is keeping support for the previous generations at the same time, which isn't possible. So for these users who want to update to Zen 3 on their B450/X470, it's a one-way trip. You have to verify ownership of your motherboard and Zen 3 and then you're provided the BIOS, which once updated, will only support Zen 3. Your motherboard will no longer work on Zen 2 or previous CPUs.
It might include Zen 2, they didn't actually say anything about that, but some CPU support will be removed of course (more than they already have removed before).
I guess based on their wording, you're right. It doesn't specifically state all pre-zen 3 won't be supported, just that you won't be able to go back.
itsmydamnation
Veteran
Why doesn't AMD have the resources to build a new uarch?
They split the GPU into 2 uarches that will run concurrently
AMD has an architecture team and leap frogging implementation teams, why exactly cant they design a new uarch? lots of the cost growth of new processes is in implementation, not design. When Zen2 shipped Michael Clarke said the arch team was working on Zen5, that gives you an idea of how far forward architecture is running in terms to implementation.
Also its not 3 years. it takes 3-4 years to bring something to market. So it is ~6 years from the start of Zen development.
I also dont agree that a new uarch would have been easiler 20 years ago, everything was significantly more manual back then, verification and simulation tools non existent compared to today
if Zen3 is significantly different enough then there simply might not be enough room full stop.
AMD submitted patches to the Linux Kernel to up microcode size from 4k to 12k, there is evidence that Zen3 bring significant change,
Also looks like the A0 steppings are doing well
https://www.igorslab.de/en/new-deta...us-have-appeared-the-image-is-getting-denser/
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Deleted member 13524
Guest
Did they remove support for those old bulldozer APUs that came out on AM4?
Some have others haven't. Asus seems to be able to fit anything even in 16MB BIOSes
GamersNexus has had official Q&A with AMD.
No receipts etc required, the "verified customers with 400 board + zen 3" means the user just has to click "yes yes, i have those" before downloading and/or installing it, so if he doesn't and the board won't boot with whatever CPU is installed, it's not AMDs problem.
Some Zen 3 features might not work on 400-series boards, but they're only blocking PCIe4.0 like before.
300-series won't get support.
Money.
20 years ago it wasn't uncommon to build a cpu in just 3 years (P6, Conroe, K8). With Zen they started in 2012 and released it 5 years later in hurry.
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Deleted member 13524
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I think as soon as the new consoles hit and PC multiplatform games make use of higher CPU demands, most of us will be needing a CPU upgrade.
My 10-core Xeon E5 v2 will probably have finally run its course for games because it only reaches 3.2GHz and IPC is generations behind Zen2 (also, no AVX2...).
I've been looking at the possibility of getting a Zen2 Threadripper because I really like not being limited on memory and add-in board expansion, but the whole TR40 platform it's so damn expensive..
Here's hoping Zen3's release will make these things cheaper overall.
My 10-core Xeon E5 v2 will probably have finally run its course for games because it only reaches 3.2GHz and IPC is generations behind Zen2 (also, no AVX2...).
I've been looking at the possibility of getting a Zen2 Threadripper because I really like not being limited on memory and add-in board expansion, but the whole TR40 platform it's so damn expensive..
Here's hoping Zen3's release will make these things cheaper overall.
I'd wait for 2021 and ddr 5 at this point. My 1700x and 32 gigs of ram will go work for another year
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