AMD: Zen 3 Speculation, Rumours and Discussion

Discussion in 'PC Industry' started by fehu, Sep 26, 2019.

  1. Adonisds

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    I just read that the first 8 "core" Bulldozer had a 315 mm2 die, I am really surprised. The Zen 2 has around 75 mm2 and the IO die uses a cheaper process. Does AMD have much better margins on these processors if you consider everything, including costs of microarchitecture design?
     
  2. hoom

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    I still like the idea of something like an HBM stack connected to the I/O die replacing one or more of the chiplets & using their IF links, I seem to recall that being suggested before.
     
  3. rwolf

    rwolf Rock Star
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    Leovinus, Lightman and hoom like this.
  4. hoom

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    OOoh even better! <3
     
  5. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
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    Sonoooo looking at ryzen 5 2600 and 3600, it seems its around 10-30% faster, but 50% more expensive.

    Are the power savings from 2600 to 3600 huge?

    They seems to have the same TDP (65W) despite 3600 were made in 7nm fab
     
  6. Gubbi

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    Are you just upgrading your CPU ? If not, you should look at total system price for 2600 vs 3600 and compare that to the performance gain.

    Cheers
     
  7. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
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    I'll be buying everything, except for the GPU

    Currently using i5 4460 so ryzen 5 2600 is already a huge multicore performance boost and tiny single core perf boost

    But baffled with ryzen 5 3600 that's only 30% faster than 2600 but 50% more expensive.


    That's if I'll get a nice discount in 12 December (Indonesia shopping spree discount event thingy)

    Otherwise I'll be buying xeon e5 2650 v2 that have pretty similar performance with ryzen 5 2600 but only cost half of it
     
  8. Leovinus

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    It should. First and foremost AMD will have higher yields per wafer as the ZEN dies are much smaller than competing monolithic designs. Variance in production means that quality varies across the wafer surface. A tolerance dip on parts of the wafer will therefore impact a few dies, but since you pack more in per wafer it's less of a loss. Secondly AMD can use cheaper production for the IO die since IO doesn't gain as much from a smaller node as a CPU does. All in all it leads to massive savings at the cost of trickier bandwidth and memory allocation, which is solved mostly through Infinity Fabric and clever cache designs.

    Cost of microarchitecture design was definitely higher for ZEN though, but those kinds of costs are incredibly variable and hard to compare. Someone more knowledgeable than me would have to answer that.
     
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  9. fehu

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    The 3600 allows you to jump on the last platform, and in a year plug a new pcie4 gpu or ssd, plus it has better memory support.
     
  10. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
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    From what I read, Pcie since gen 2 have pretty much have enough bandwidth.

    BTW what do you mean better memory support?

    I'm planning to get the cheapest memory possible as usually the performance hit of slow ram is pretty small
     
  11. fehu

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    If you are aiming for the cheapest, then 2600 is perfect allowing you to purchase cheaper mainboard.
    I have a msi b450 and had no problem.
    Just pay attention to the bios' version with which is shipped because it can be incompatible with newer cpus. In this case, you'll have the hassle to find an older am4 cpu to upgrade the bios.
     
  12. Malo

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    Buy whatever your budget allows. If you want a slower CPU, slower NVMe drive and an impact on systems speeds from slower RAM then do it. If you want to spend more and get a faster system then do it. All components have an effect on system speed, including RAM speed which has a definite impact on Ryzen.

    Will you be happy with a 2600 and cheaper components? Most likely yes. Will you be happier with more expensive faster components? Most likely yes.
     
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  13. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
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  14. Davros

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    You'd be surprised how old a cpu you can get away with as long as your gpu is decent
    Whats running slow on your system ?
     
    #34 Davros, Dec 11, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
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  15. Malo

    Malo Yak Mechanicum
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    A 4C/4T 3.2Ghz Haswell isn't something you can get away with anymore in modern gaming.
     
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  16. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
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    LA noire VR, and real time green screen via kinect while playing VR.

    Everything else works fine as I got gtx 1660 super
     
  17. Adonisds

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    I have an i5 Haswell, but mine is overlclocked to 4.4 Ghz, and it's holding up very well.
    I just played Dragon Quest XI in 1440p, around 50 fps
     
  18. Malo

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    Obviously it's going to vary by game, and that game doesn't seem to scale past 4c4t at all. We're seeing more and more games that do scale well, however, and perform badly in a low core/thread scenario.

    My wife's Haswell i7 4c8t still seems to be doing ok, though she doesn't push games nearly as much as I do.
     
  19. Davros

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    Tell me what I cant play ?
    shadow of the tomb raider, gta V, the outer worlds, control, far cry 5, terminator resistance - all playable
     
  20. A1xLLcqAgt0qc2RyMz0y

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    Both the Ryzen 2600 and 3600 were priced at $199 upon release. See the "Price at introduction" in the following links.

    Ryzen 2600: http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Zen/AMD-Ryzen 5 2600.html

    Ryzen 3600: http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Zen/AMD-Ryzen 5 3600.html

    The reason the Ryzen 2600 is so much cheaper now is because of the dumping of old inventory and holiday sales.

    I was able to recently buy a new Ryzen 2700X processor with Wraith Prism fan/heatsink for $129 + tax during the Black Friday/Cyber Monday sale time frame. Originally this sold for $329.

    Ryzen 2700X: http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Zen/AMD-Ryzen 7 2700X.html
     
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