AMD Polaris Rumors and Discussion

Discussion in 'Architecture and Products' started by gamervivek, Dec 6, 2016.

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  1. Blazkowicz

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    I am very interested in that Radeon 530. If there's a desktop version I have to wonder if it's a laptop-only GPU (Iceland) with a display I/O chip!
    On the other hand if you go to the product pages you quoted and click on "Supported Rendering Format" and "Connectivity" it says "No" to everything : no to every H264/H265 video codecs and no to every kind of monitor output.

    So if this thing supports "Desktop".. Either there's an actual desktop version and their stuff is a bit wrong, or their sense of humor is weird. Or are they making a headless "graphics" board that only pairs through PCIe 8x to an Excavator / Bristol Ridge AM4 APU? (same GCN tech and similar performance, for Crossfire).
    Is it strictly an OEM product? That would make most sense. Perhaps the "desktops" are all-in-one or SFF, with laptop hardware basically?


    I take AMD's word for linux support (that's a motivation to get low end GCN 1.2) but without outputs I think this will be a dead weight that lets me execute OpenCL code (let's see, what do I want a linux supported graphics card for.. smooth graphics, hardware H264 and little games, or OpenCL accelerated offline rendering? lol)

    http://www.amd.com/en/products/graphics/radeon-530
    http://www.amd.com/en/products/graphics/radeon-520

    Will be banging my head for the next hour wondering what it's about.

    (not a Polaris, but close enough)
     
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  2. CarstenS

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    I wonder if you could use the Tensor Cores narrow capabilities for some post process effects effectively. Maybe as part of some Gameworks libaries? Would be fitting for Nvidia and could be leveraged as an incentive both against AMD cards as well as older-gen Nvidia cards: "Get xyz-effect for free on Volta-based cards".

    Recently, I found this while scavenging ebay for some retro-hardware. It is from the description of a x87 co-processor of the 286 era.
    [​IMG]
    The reference to dramatic improvement in graphics applications made me smile, even though at that time, it was likely correct.
     
  3. sebbbi

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    Tensor core operation = Multiply two fp16 4x4 matricies and add third one (fp32). Output 4x4 matrix as fp32.

    Because the multiply precision is only fp16, it obviously isn't enough for most coordinate system transforms (world, view, projection, etc). But you could do color space transforms with that. Not that common in games however. I am much more interested about double rate fp16 & int16 regarding to games. These will provide tangible perf boosts without the need to rewrite your algorithms.
     
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  4. CarstenS

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    Yeah, x-rate FP16 in general processing core seems much more useful, especially given all the research that has gone into it from mobile and consoles possibly.

    But I am also looking forward to see, if anything useful can be done with the Tensor ALUs. Obviously, they ARE quite specialized, but OTOH, there's quite a bit of calculating power to be tapped into. What I cannot asses though is, whether or not this warrants looking into algorithms from a different point of view, especially when it's unclear if the consumer-grade GPUs will have those Tensor blocks at all.
     
  5. Malo

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    If they do it's likely it will be there in a very limited number for compatibility, like FP64 on GP104?
     
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  6. ImSpartacus

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    I thought Nvidia's tensor unit did the multiplication operation in FP32 and the FP16 limitation was purely for the storage of the inputs, hence why the output is a FP32 matrix.

    Granted, that's according to this post:

    https://forum.beyond3d.com/posts/1980946/

     
  7. Anarchist4000

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    Thinking on the arrangement, tensor cores shouldn't be that different from the 16 wide SIMD in Polaris, but with the adders doubled for 2xFP32. Then run two operations. Double again to maximize register throughput with accumulation and four operations per lane. An accumulator is just an adder with a single storage register.

    That could be Vega's RF cache with 4xFP32 accumulators per lane. MUL is faster than FMA, so boosts clocks a bit while requiring two operands. Doesn't work well if the FMA result needs flushed, but I'm guessing it gets used shortly after and discarded in most cases.

    It's a question of significant figures. A repeating decimal has as many bits of precision as you care to hold on to. Then if the exponents are in different domains the result is discarded anyways. To my understanding that's why fuzzy/DL math drives engineers crazy, but works in practice. The results are more or less Boolean.
     
  8. silent_guy

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    In a real FP32 mul, you enter the multiplier with 2 23-bit inputs and end up with a 23-bit output.
    In the Tensor core case, if it doesn't throw away any bits in the multiplication, you enter with two 10-bit inputs, end up with 20 bits (which enters an adder with 23 bits.)

    So even in the highest precision case, it doesn't really make sense to say that the multiply is FP32, because both the input and output have less bits than a real FP32.
     
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  9. pharma

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  10. el etro

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    My indignation rises up very much. Why not stay with the 560D naming?
     
  11. Malo

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    But it's fine because they changed the specification on the page right? Consumers will know to look for the faster version if they care? :roll:
     
  12. CSI PC

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    Yeah, Nvidia mention the only 32-bit option is for accumulate.
    But then latest approach from Nvidia and Baidu showed real world accuracy as good as 32-bit with regards to training/inferencing using loss scaling, and performance improved by additional processes; I linked the paper some time ago - yeah requires fine tuning for each DL solution and how many will adopt this with Volta.
    In summary it came down to as Nvidia states:
    For a framework such as Caffe2 they mention:
     
    #212 CSI PC, Dec 5, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
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  13. Anarchist4000

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    Really depends on what they do with clocks. It could be faster in some cases. Less cores/power at higher clocks would improve geometry performance that would be beneficial in that segment. Not uncommon to see AMD having difficulty feeding cores in poorly optimized titles without async.
     
  14. DrYesterday

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  15. Esrever

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  16. Malo

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    Looks like there's some stock issues of the normal 560's so they're filling the inventory with these instead. They're clocked a lot lower as well, there'd be a significant performance gulf. Some "new" 560's are priced higher than in-stock real 560's.
     
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  17. el etro

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    RX560D exists here in Brazil.
     
  18. pharma

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    AMD Statement About Radeon RX 560 896 shader SKUs
    http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/amd-radeon-rx-560-statement-from-amd-on-896-shader-skus.html
     
  19. rcf

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    I couldn't find a webpage for the "560D" at AMD's website. They just updated the RX 560 product page to include the lower specs, and the expression "560D" cannot be found anywhere in the page. But now they blame others for not being clear?
    AMD should have just called it RX 555, but no, that would be too simple and easy for AMD, as their PR department is always looking for some action, like a workaholic bomb squad.
     
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  20. 3dilettante

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    Is it public relations that would be responsible for deciding the product numbering?
    At least part of the problem is built into what board partners are doing, and I don't think they count as part of the general public.

    The stealth update to the AMD product site might be somewhat on marketing, although if a marketer's bosses say everything has to fit in the 560 category, they don't have many good options. At this point, since there are already 560 cards out there, marketing wouldn't be able to walk it back.

    Is there a known date for the spec page change, or when these salvage 560 products made it to market? Given lead times, it seems like this must have been initiated a fair amount of time before it was noticed by consumers.
     
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