AMD FSR antialiasing discussion

[TalEth]

I would not call "a win" something that causes posterization, i.e. the painterly look (and other artifacts too).

Unfortunately, many people have no notion of how the texture detallisation is different to sharpening. They mistake sharper image for better details, so that additional sharpening is just to highlight texture details that already present in the image with DLSS for such people.

If people are fine playing the games with "posterization" it means FSR wins. This is all that matters, how good the image looks for the person who is playing. And unlike others (myself included), that guy who made the famous video with FSR vs DLSS on the 3090 is totally unbiased. And he is not the only one who saw a better IQ from FSR and higher frame rates.
You can try to find arguments for why DLSS is better as much as you want ( heck Dictator is trying hard to sell DLSS since v 1.0 and claimed it is better than native since 1.9 on Control but that is probably his job. ). But the reality is, there are some games where for the "untrained" or people with low standards or bad vision, FSR looks fine enough. The simple fact that you felt the need to sharpen the DLSS version ( like someone else felt the need to sharpen the native image when he was doing another comparison, shows that your beloved tech have a problem and you have an agenda. To "prove" DLSS is better no matter what. Or in the case of Alex, to discredit FSR, no matter what.
You can easily find in games a lot of places where a tech looks good or bad or worse than another tech. Especially when you use still images even if no one is playing games like that. ( Talking about posterization i think DF where the first to invent posterization - to compare still images claiming that this means anything in the overall gaming experience ). You can always use a sharpening filter on a native image to make it look much better than any DLSS option etc.

Adding sharpening to DLSS in comparison to FSR is fine simply because FSR has RCAS built into itself. I wish that every DLSS2 game would provide an option of controlling DLSS sharpness though.

It was stupid because you lose even more FPS. And DLSS also have a built in sharpener.

 

[CarstenS]

Unfortunately, many people have no notion of how the texture detallisation is different to sharpening. They mistake sharper image for better details, so that additional sharpening is just to highlight texture details that already present in the image with DLSS for such people.

People today are conditioned to the automatically postprocessed smartphone stills which mostly are oversaturated, oversharpened and in many cases have very little Depth of Field. In fact, some people prefer those over artistic photography with carefully placed sharpness and high dynamic range because they think it's the way pictures are supposed to look.

Now, I am not one to judge. Everyone can use filters and post processing to their liking. But they should remain aware that this is their subjective impression, they voice. And that often seems not to be the case.

 

[Dictator]

If people are fine playing the games with "posterization" it means FSR wins. This is all that matters, how good the image looks for the person who is playing. And unlike others (myself included), that guy who made the famous video with FSR vs DLSS on the 3090 is totally unbiased. And he is not the only one who saw a better IQ from FSR and higher frame rates.
You can try to find arguments for why DLSS is better as much as you want ( heck Dictator is trying hard to sell DLSS since.... . To "prove" DLSS is better no matter what. Or in the case of Alex, to discredit FSR, no matter what.

What an amazing way to make an ass of yourself. How unbecoming and wrong.

 

[OlegSH]

If people are fine playing the games with "posterization" it means FSR wins.

People are fine with skewed out of the box image on monitors and TVs too, does it make calibration useless? Or now a calibrated professional display is worse than your average cheap TV just because somebody likes oversaturated or overshapened image on this TV? Does not make any sense to me.

And he is not the only one who saw a better IQ from FSR and higher frame rates.

That's funny. How do you even come to the better IQ?
Does it make image closer to a perfect SSAAed reference image?
Does it lose less details than native res TAA'ed image when compared to native res without AA?
Look, I am comparing No AA native, TAA native, DLSS Quality and FSR Ultra Quality here - https://imgsli.com/NjE3MDQ/0/1
Which one cuts off less details from no AA? Which one reconstructs subpixel details? What metrics are you going to use?
Subjective opinion is not a metric or some objective measurable truth, or even an expert knowledge for that matter.

But the reality is, there are some games where for the "untrained" or people with low standards or bad vision, FSR looks fine enough.

Good for them. Why would they need FSR is the only remaining question. I would suggest them playing any game in lower resolution with a bit of sharpening on top of the in-game upscaling, the results would be pretty much the same (with the exception of UI) as with FSR in thousands of games.

You can always use a sharpening filter on a native image to make it look much better than any DLSS option etc.

No, you can't, sharpenning won't magically add any texture details to native and it won't bring subpixel details back and even thin pixel size details for that matter, here, take a breath and look at this comparison again - https://imgsli.com/NjE3MDQ/0/1

 

[DegustatoR]

It was stupid because you lose even more FPS.

Around 1% or so, nothing which you will ever notice in practice.

And DLSS also have a built in sharpener.

It doesn't have a "built-in sharpener", it produces an image which have similar characteristics to what a sharpened image would have. The point is that you'd want to be able to control that to a degree, and DLSS2 should really expose such option to the end user.

 

[BRiT]

What an amazing way to make an ass of yourself. How unbecoming and wrong.

It's also a sure fire way to find themselves banned.

 

[BRiT]

Once again, attacking other posters and aggressive behavior is not welcome on this site. Such behavior is a sure fire way to find your account removed.

 

[digitalwanderer]

I knew this tech would be great for arguments, I just knew it!

 

[Deleted member 13524]

It's also a sure fire way to find themselves banned.

You don't find the post you quoted as attacking other users and aggressive?

 

[chris1515]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1416146545788006409

 

[Remij]

You don't find the post you quoted as attacking other users and aggressive?

I feel like it was a completely appropriate response to someone making a ridiculous claim about his character.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

I feel like it was a completely appropriate response to someone making a ridiculous claim about his character.

And I feel like it wasn't. Do the forum rules apply to all users under all circumstances, or is there an exception saying users are entitled to being aggressive as means for personal vindication?

 

[BRiT]

The general rule is be civil. Avoiding questionable behavior is the best way to avoid subjective reactions from the moderation team.

 

[DavidGraham]

The Ultra Performance DLSS (720p) can outpace FSR Ultra Quality (1660p) in The Avengers.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/ompnm6

 

[Remij]

The Ultra Performance DLSS (720p) can outpace FSR Ultra Quality (1660p) in The Avengers.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/ompnm6

What's the performance difference?

 

[digitalwanderer]

Isn't the Avengers supposed to be a terrible game? Not trying to start fights, just curious if I got my facts straight.

 

[Deleted member 2197]

The Ultra Performance DLSS (720p) can outpace FSR Ultra Quality (1660p) in The Avengers.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/ompnm6

He has a few other comparisons besides what you posted. But in this case is reconstruction the incorrect solution if it improves on native rendering?

 

[Malo]

Isn't the Avengers supposed to be a terrible game? Not trying to start fights, just curious if I got my facts straight.

That's more of a question for an actual game thread.

 

[jlippo]

He has a few other comparisons besides what you posted. But in this case is reconstruction the incorrect solution if it improves on native rendering?

Considering that DLSS is an antialiasing solution, the correct solution is ground truth with 'perfect' AA at target resolution.

Thus the rendering resolution is decoupled and we can compare results as is.

'Native' version failing this worse, doesn't make DLSS incorrect.

 

[Davros]

Quick question : does DSR support all resolutions or is it like early DLSS in only supporting common resolutions ?