All purpose Sales and Sales Rumours and Anecdotes [2021 Edition]

Discussion in 'Console Industry' started by BRiT, Feb 5, 2021.

  1. eastmen

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    lol i jsut went and sorted by finishing soonest and picked the non bundle. Scrolling on your list the ps5 and xbox seem to be selling for the same amount. Also to note that Gamestop announced 2 days ago that they would have stock today of the xbox. Which would have depressed pricing for the system.

    I have no idea what webuy.com is never used it before. I also don't know when stock from either system has come in.

    I can tell you that when the xbox hits gamestop tommorow it will sell out right away and will continue to do so all year and get spurred on by Halo and any other titles MS releases this holiday season.
     
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  2. goonergaz

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    What are you talking about? The PS5 is clearly selling for more...do I really need to add screen shots!?

    The only true measure of a value is that which it last sold for. If you want to go back through the history of sales it's all there...PS5 is consistently selling for more than XSX - the data is there, please feel free to counter with the data in hand form the source you selected to disprove my assertation that demand and resale value is higher for PS5.

    Webuy.com is a big UK reseller, if anyone had a XSX and wants to trade/sell you can take it there for 'immediate' cash. They then sell the products on the high street and online. At the moment in the UK they offer £450 (the actual RRP) for a XSX but will offer £500 for a PS5. They are a retailer selling both products to the same market so are a fair reflection on demand in the UK.

    Everywhere is selling out of everything as soon as as stock arrives, it literally means nothing other than demand outstrips supply - all the evidence I have provided attempts to show how much that demand outstrips the supply. So demand for PS5 is higher even though there are more units out there.
     
    #42 goonergaz, Apr 21, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2021
  3. eastmen

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    1) Sony is shipping more , but both are selling out at MSRP. Posting bidding sites only show you the demand for that moment in time. Why would I spend $1k on a xbox yesterday when I could walk into a gamestop today and get one for $35 a month ? I got the email on monday about gamestops having stock today.

    2) Why would anyone care if both systems are selling out ? What matters is how long they both sell out and what happens when stock exceeds demand. That is when exclusive games will matter and with stock shortages until the end of the year or even into 2022 both companies will be able to get a lot of exclusives out.


    Like I continue to say MS is writing a story and when supply starts to get larger they will have halo and other games release to keep demand up.
     
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  4. goonergaz

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    @eastmen

    Ok, so I'm going back a week because you're suggesting Gamestop will have stock soon and forcing prices down, essentially this is the last 10 sales of 14th April with new stock in hand;
    playstation 5 console | eBay @ average $852.50
    xbox series x console | eBay @ average $764

    As I said, if you want to cherry pick a date and prove I'm wrong feel free...but I think it's clear that one has higher demand than the other.
     
  5. goonergaz

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    Because you can't walk into gamestop - so people will pay more, the evidence is there.

    It matters the whole time, the sooner you can have stock on shelves the better - less chance of losing a sale to the other team or the better chance of taking from them.

    You sound like a broken marketing record. 'MS are writing a story' - what a load of rubbish, Sony are also 'writing a story' - a story of massively popular mega-blockbuster franchises!

    You constantly make it sound like MS are the only ones doing anything.
     
  6. eastmen

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    1) I was in a gamestop yesterday buying a switch pro controller .

    2) People don't just buy a console the first day they are out. People continue buying a console the whole generation they are for sale. If there is a game they want on a console they don't have they will buy that console.

    3) That's good for sony , they have their own story and MS has their own also. Halo , Gears , Doom , Elder Scrolls , Flight simulator , forza are I guess not massively popular mega blockbuster franchises I guess.

    4) MS is doing exciting things to me and so I talk about it a lot more than sony. I've already explained that sony doesn't have games currently that interest me. There are no big sony shooters or big wrpgs from sony so what exactly would I say ? I did say demon souls looked great and it was the one game I wanted to play on the ps5 that i was sad wasn't coming to xbox. I also pointed out that its great sony is putting their games on pc. Is there something else you'd like me to comment on ?
     
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  7. goonergaz

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    Wow, you're really losing it.
    You said "Why would I spend $1k on a xbox yesterday when I could walk into a gamestop today and get one for $35 a month ? "
    I said "Because you can't walk into gamestop - so people will pay more, the evidence is there."
    WTF that has to do with buying a switch controller I have know idea

    Well duh

    The point was Sony are also making massively popular games too, Uncharted, Spiderman, God of War, Horizen etc - those are exclusives that sell consoles too...those games all sold 10m + I think Halo scrapped in that.

    Each to their own.

    I see still nothing to counter my comments about demand being higher for PS5 even though it's sold quite a bit more. Early days of course and much can happen, can't wait to see and play all these amazing Xbox exclusives you keep talking about that are going to make XSX sell more than PS5.
     
  8. eastmen

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    I'll keep this short because I feel we wont ever get to the other side of this discussion

    1) You can walk into gamestop. They had systems yesterday online and in store for purchase through all access.
    2) Its great that sony has exclusives that sell consoles. They both do. So whats the problem ? MS is offering a lot more than that right now. The biggest postive to me is that I can buy game pass ultimate and play those games on an xbox , pc or my phone or tablet and in the future any smart tv. I can't do that with sony now can I ? I can't do that with nintendo now can I ?

    3) We have no idea what true demand is for either system because neither company can serve up more consoles than the demand. Things like stock drops will certainly affect prices because it affects supply on these auction sites. When a 100 people try to sell the same thing it will sell for less than if only 10 people tried to sell the same thing at the same time.

    For microsoft the important thing for them is selling Game pass. They have 24m game pass subscribers now and its growing. The xbox series is just part of what they are trying to do.

    The last halo could only be sold to people who owned a xbox one / s/ x which was what 50-60m people ? Halo infinite can sell to those 60m people + xbox series owners + anyone willing to get game pass to play it on their iphone or ipad , or windows pc or surface tablet or samsung galaxy phone . For MS the important thing again is that people buy into the platform which is now much greater than just a console
     
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  9. goonergaz

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    I agree this is my last post on the subject.

    1) I never said you couldn't walk into Gamestop, it was a direct reply to your implication that you could walk into Gamestop and get an XSX for $35 pm at any point, and clearly you can't...or are you saying there is free stock now?

    2) So MS are offering a lot more but selling a lot less.

    3) You're wrong, I've cited evidence showing the demand is higher for PS5...you can spin it all you want, it's simple economics.

    Oh, so now you're turning this into 'GP is more important than XSX' - I've never disputed this...you kept saying XSX sales is going to pick up pace when all these games will come out (still waiting for a list of games BTW), this is what I am questioning. I totally agree, MS seem to care more about GP than XSX - finally something we can agree on something.
     
  10. BRiT

    BRiT (>• •)>⌐■-■ (⌐■-■)
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    Maybe time for a breather or agree to see things differently and move on?
     
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  11. Shortbread

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  12. Karamazov

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    They sold only 5.7M ps4s in 2020 ?
     
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  13. DSoup

    DSoup meh
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    Yup. It say FY20 right there.

    I know, right! :runaway:
     
  14. Globalisateur

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    Q4 was actually OK, I think. But Q3 was abysmal, but seeing Q4 I think it was mainly because of stock issues. They must have prioritized PS5 production.
     
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  15. zed

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    FY = financial year so not the same as the calender year. So I calc 6.2 million for 2020
    But if you are alluding to they sold sweet F all, yes it does look like demand for the ps4 has dropped off quicker than previous playstation consoles

    huh you cant even buy a ps4 in the USA!
    https://www.nowinstock.net/videogaming/consoles/ps4/
    Are they already not being manufactured anymore?

    Also looking at the cheapest price $270 for 500GB from walmart, why would anyone want that when you can get a ps5 for $130 more
     
    #55 zed, Apr 28, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2021
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  16. cheapchips

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    Not sure what the demand curve was line, but I think with PS3 they'd introduced the super slim at this point as well?
     
  17. Globalisateur

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    But can you?
     
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  18. Shortbread

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    A partial post by ArmGunar at Era. The rest of the post can be found here.

    *The US Dollar figures have been converted from Japanese Yen with exchange rate provided in Sony fiscal reports
    Source 1 / Source 2

    Major records broken / milestones reached this quarter or fiscal year by PlayStation :
    (most of these below have a dedicated graph later in the thread)
    • PlayStation reached an all-time high of 25.04B Revenue during FY2020 and set a new record for the industry
      • Previous record was Sony FY18 with $20.84B Revenue
      • The second time PlayStation broke the $20B barrier
      • Only PlayStation ever generated more than $18.5B Revenue during a fiscal year, let alone $20B
    • PlayStation reached an all-time high of $6.24B Revenue during Q4, a new record for the industry
      • Previous biggest Q4 Revenue was Sony Q4 FY18 with ¥498.1bn (= $4.52B)
      • A jump by +32.6% from previous biggest Q4 Revenue
      • First time, any platform holder ever reached $5 Billion and $6 Billion Revenue during Jan-March
      • Biggest Revenue ever for PlayStation (and for any platform holder) during a non-Holiday quarter (non-Q3)
    • PlayStation generated $3.23B Profits in FY20, a new record for them (despite the launch of a new hardware)
      • First time, they broke the $3B barrier
      • Previous most profitable year was FY18 with $2.81B Profits
    • PlayStation 5 sold-in 3.3m units (LTD: 7.8m) and is now the most sold console during its first fiscal year
      • Beating PS4's 7.6m units in its launch fiscal year, previous record holder
    • PlayStation 4 is now the console which has sold the most games in video game history, with at least 1.577B games sold
      • Surpassing PS2's 1.537B games sold, previous record holder
    • PlayStation Platforms sold more than 338.9m games in FY20, the highest yearly software sales in PlayStation ecosystem
      • Previous record was FY18 with 287.9m games sold
    • PlayStation Network reached an all-time high of $17.32B Revenue in FY20 (+36.4% YoY)
      • Previous record was $12.88B Revenue in FY18
    • PlayStation Network reached an all-time high of $4.04B Revenue in Q4 FY20 (Jan-Mar 2021) ; +23.7% YoY
      • Previous Q4 record was $3.27B Revenue in Q4 FY18 (Jan-Mar 2019)
    • PlayStation Software & Services reached an all-time high of $18.62B Revenue in FY20 (+34.9% YoY)
      • Previous record was $14.61B Revenue in FY18
    • PlayStation Software & Services reached an all-time high of $4.19B Revenue in Q4 FY20 (Jan-Mar) ; +21.0% YoY
      • Previous Q4 record was $3.57B Revenue in Q4 FY18 (Jan-Mar 2019)

    Highlights :
    • FY20 : Over $25.04B Revenue and $3.23B Profit between April 2020 - March 2021
      • Biggest Yearly Revenue for PlayStation (and for any platform holder) in video game history
        • Top 3 biggest Yearly Revenue ever:
          1. Sony FY20
          2. Sony FY18
          3. Sony FY19
        • To show how big Revenue are, FY20 Revenue are higher than :
          • Revenue from the entire PS1 generation [FY95-99]
          • Revenue from the 2nd half cycle of PS3 gen [FY10-12]
          • Revenue of FY13 and FY14 combined
      • Best Operating Profit ever for PlayStation
        • To show how big these Profits are, FY20 Profit are higher than :
          • Profit from the entire PS1 generation
          • Profit from the entire PS2 generation
    • Q4 FY20 : Over $6.24B Revenue and $0.312B Profit between January 2021 - March 2021
      • Biggest Revenue ever for PlayStation (and for any platform holder) during Q4
        • Top 3 biggest Q4 Revenue ever:
          1. Sony Q4 FY20
          2. Sony Q4 FY18
          3. Sony Q4 FY17
      • Biggest Revenue ever for PlayStation (and for any platform holder) during a non-Holiday quarter (non-Q3)
        • Top 5 biggest non-Q3 Revenue ever:
          1. Sony Q4 FY20 (Jan-Mar 2021)
          2. Sony Q1 FY20 (April-June 2020 - FF7R/TLOU Part II)
          3. Sony Q2 FY18 (July-Sept 2018 - Spider-Man)
          4. Sony Q2 FY20 (July-Sept 2020 - Ghost of Tsushima)
          5. Sony Q4 FY18 (Jan-Mar 2019)
      • 3rd best Operating Profit ever for PlayStation during Q4
    • Hardware :
      • PS5 : 3.3m in Q4 FY20 / LTD: 7.8m
        • Biggest console launch in video game history, surpassing PS4's 4.5m units
      • PS4 : 1.0m in Q4 FY20 / 5.8m in FY20 / LTD: 115.9m
    • Software :
      • PS4/PS5 (FY20) : 338.9m games sold
        • including 58.4m Sony-published games (vs 49.2m - FY19)
          • 17.2% of total games sold this FY20 (vs 17.8% - FY19)
      • PS4/PS5 (Q4 FY20) : 61.4m games sold
        • including 7.9m Sony-published games (vs 9.2m - Q4 FY19)
          • 12.9% of total games sold this FY20 (vs 14.1% - Q4 FY19)
      • Software digital ratio : 79% in Q4
    • PlayStation Store had its biggest Revenue ever during FY20 with more than $13.71B (+44.0% YoY)
      • including Digital Software & Add-on content
    • PlayStation Software & Services saw their biggest Revenue ever during FY20 with more than $18.62B (+34.9% YoY)
      • including Physical / Digital Software & Add-on content / Services
    • 109m MAU (monthly active users)
      • 109m active users each spent about $120.26 on average on PS Store in FY20
        • It includes Digital Software + Add-on but no Services revenue
        • That average spending grew +44.0% YoY
        • Biggest yearly average spending per active user ever recorded on PS Store
    • FY2021 Forecast:
      • $27.10B Revenue & $3.04B Profit... it would be:
        • Biggest Revenue for PlayStation (and for any platform holder) in video game history
        • 2nd best Operating Profit ever for PlayStation

    [​IMG]


    Sony Corporation - FY2020 (April 2020 - March 2021) :

    [​IMG]

    Sony Revenue : ¥8999.4bn / $84.82B (+9.0% YoY from ¥8259.9bn / $75.99B - FY2019)
    Sony Operating Profit : ¥971.9bn / $9.16B (+15.0% YoY from ¥845.5bn / $7.78B - FY2019)
    Sony Net Profit : ¥1171.8bn / $11.04B (+101.3% YoY from ¥582.2bn / $5.36B - FY2019)
    • Best Revenue ever for Sony
    • Best Operating Profit ever for Sony
    • Best Net Profit ever for Sony
      • First time, Net Profit crossed ¥1 trillion / $10 billion
    Sony's different businesses
    • PlayStation : Video Game Hardware & Software, PlayStation Store, PlayStation Network
    • Music : Recorded Music, Music Publishing, Sony Music Japan's Aniplex (mobile games & animation studio ; production/distribution anime, music)
    • Pictures : Movies & TV shows, Funimation Global Group (joint-venture w/ Aniplex) specializes in dubbing/distributing anime
    • Electronics Products & Solutions : TV, Home audio, Headphone, BR disc players and recorders, Still & Video Cameras, Mobile, Medical Equipment
    • Imaging & Sensing Solutions : CMOS Image Sensors for smartphones and digital cameras, Image Sensors (CMOS, SWIR, ToF) for Security/Industry/Automotive
    • Financial Services : Sony Life (Life Insurance), Sony Assurance (provides property and casualty insurance services), Sony Bank (online)
    Major investments from Sony between April 2020 and April 2021 :
    [​IMG]


    Revenue & Profit Breakdown by Segment
    Some milestones reached, per segment :
    • Music : Best Revenue and 2nd Best Op. Profit ever (Best Op. Profit if we exclude the one-time gain due to consolidation of EMI in FY18)
    • Pictures : Best Op. Profit ever
    • Electronics Products & Solutions : Best Op. Profit since at least FY13 (no data before)
    • Imaging & Sensing Solutions : 2nd best Revenue & 3rd best Op. Profit ever
    Top Biggest Revenue Drivers for the Fiscal Year :
    1. PlayStation
    2. Electronic Products & Solutions
    3. Financial Services
    4. Imaging & Sensing Solutions
    5. Music
    6. Pictures

    [​IMG]

    Top Biggest Profit Drivers for the Fiscal Year :
    1. PlayStation
    2. Music
    3. Financial Services
    4. Imaging & Sensing Solutions
    5. Electronic Products & Solutions
    6. Pictures
    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Shortbread

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  20. Silent_Buddha

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    Just to give some perspective. Sony's Q4 (which is roughly analogous to MS Q3) was ~5.9 billion USD for G&NS (Games and Network Services). Both companies did quite well for launch, but Sony has done extraordinarily well.

    MS was obviously hampered on the overall software front (where the bulk of the revenue was made for Sony) by not having any major exclusive releases while Sony had some excellent releases (Demon's Souls comes immediately to mind). However, while some key exclusives to go with launch would have boosted MS's numbers, it would only have narrowed the gap rather than closing it.

    Regardless, kudos to both companies for relatively well executed launches. Supply issues obviously have tempered things, but we live in interesting times.

    Regards,
    SB
     
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