All purpose Sales and Sales Rumours and Anecdotes [2021 Edition]

I don't think the consoles will ever go down in price, usually that's triggered by some sort of node shrink and that won't happen. So the only thing coming down in price is memory and storage. Typically when storage costs come down, they increase the amount of storage while keeping the price the same.

The Series S is a signal that they don't expect for the consoles to come down in price this generation imo. There won't be a mid gen refresh. So the Series S was the only way to bring the cost down for people. Just like PS5 Digital will be the only way to bring the cost down. They just won't make as many today until demand starts to quell.

 

That would be very un-inspiring, and back to the 7th gen era of seven to eight years on the same hardware. While resolution increases are probably not going to be it, they certainly have different reasons for mid-gen upgrades.

 

I spoke what a year or so ago about MS being able to adjust the series s price all the way down to $200 if need be. They still have the flexibilty to do so and it will only get easier for them as yields go up.

As for a mid gen refresh , I have said before I think its smarter for these companies to take the newest zen and newest rdna designs of the time and release a new console based on that. But it doesn't mean the other console wont see a micron shrink before then. Doesn't TSMC have 6nm and 5nm already with Apple moving to 3nm soon ? I could see both sony and ms moving to 5nm with these consoles as the pricing stabilizes.

 

It's going to be a long time for 5nm and 3nm to come down in price and still be more powerful in a small envelope. We are hitting the boundaries of what consumers can afford as a 'mainstream' device.

Not sure if they want to use 5nm/3nm as a new generation or a mid-gen.

I think it makes sense to skip mid-gen.

 

Umm.. think about it. PlayStation 2, Xbox 360, PlayStation 3, Xbox One and PlayStation 4 has more price reductions than node shrinks.

PS3 was absurdly expensive until they yanked PS2 hardware. Xbox One was expensive until they yanked Kinect. For as long as I can recall, the CPU/GPU has never represented the biggest cost in a console's cost.

 

correction, I don't think there will be a slim variant.

 

Count me in the XSS believer camp for the reasons articulated by others.

As for mid-gen refreshes? Hmmm.... maybe. I agree with those who think the next console will be when RDNA next and 3nm converge at a reasonable cost. If that's soon enough (ie. before 2025), then we'll call the next console a mid-gen refresh. If it's later we'll call it a new generation.

 

Imagine how small a Series S Slim will be. Like the size of a Wii.

 

I yearn for a return to consoles like PS2 slim. That just felt ridiculous.

 

The last models of PS2 slim with the internal power supply are tiny inside. Not counting the power supply and optical drive, of course.

That metal strip on the top left are the controller/memory card ports, for a reference to size.

 

There is a Switch
PS4 Slim is rather small.

 

could be even smaller since there isn't a dvd drive in it.

 

Depends on the source, some sources have XBS consoles at ~8.65 million units.

It helps but not quite as much as one might think. The cost of aluminum has also gone up almost 50% since the launch of the consoles. Of, course, it's still a lower cost per unit measurement than copper, but pretty much all raw materials have gone up massively in price in the past year.

So, while switching to aluminum saved them from the increase in the price of copper, it's not as large of a savings when you compare current aluminum prices to copper prices from a year ago. It's still a savings, just not as large a savings.

Of course, helping all that is just a reduction in the weight of materials used for the heatsink.

Sure, I noted that it wasn't the only cost increase WRT the consoles. Everything used in the consoles is going up in price and while both Sony and MS have secured supply that will buffer them to an extent with regards to short term volatility in the market, their suppliers would have been remiss if the cost of components weren't also tied to an extent to longer term market trends related to the cost of manufacturing those components for MS/Sony. Using a greatly exaggerated example to illustrate this, if the cost of materials suddenly went up 1000% or foundry costs shot up 500% over an extended period or permanently, increases in the cost of secured components would by necessity go up. Where that point is within the contracts that Sony and MS negotiated is the only point in question. It does noone any good if a contract were to put a supplier at a point where they may go out of business in order to fulfill the contract.

So, it may help mitigate somewhat the cost increases from materials (copper, alluminum, plastics, PCBs, etc.) and silicon (TSMC, Samsung, and other foundries wafer starts) going up anywhere from 10-50% or potentially more. And might even help insulate them from increased manufacturing costs.

It won't, however, help much with increased shipping costs or costs of operations related to shortages of components due to suppliers having a difficult time sourcing the materials that everyone is trying to get a hold of like copper and aluminum, hence the greatly increased prices for materials.

All of this means that at best, the cost of sales for consoles will only go up slightly in the short term. What it also means, however, is that there is unlikely to be any cost reductions. Even in secured supply cost reductions in contracts are generally tied to whether or not there are cost reductions on the supply side (materials, manufacturing, etc. for the suppliers). If there are no cost reductions on the supplier's side then there are no cost reductions to pass on to Sony and MS.

Regards,
SB

 

One would think the XSS has come in a time where it is really a good fit, seeing hardware shortage/corona etc.

 

I don't know what 'costs of operations related to shortages of components' is but global shipping costs are fairly low and have been for a year. . Fast shipping - air freight - has increased but if if you're shipping constant amounts by surface then costs are decreasing so unless you live in the US and your supply chan is via either the east of west coast where there are logistics issues (local issue for North America) then it's mostly fine.

Weird cost increases localised to the US are definitely not a global issue, just the cost of doing business with the US, along with the last administrations attempt to engage in a trade war with Asia when they import most goods from China. Genius.

 

Shipping costs to NA

https://www.icis.com/explore/resour...s-continue-to-soar-despite-increased-attentio

pretty sure the cost is up globally. But NA got hit the worst at least with respect to pre-pandemic levels.

 

Hmm seems not since it is selling poorly compared to X let alone PS5 DE. If stock were available I suppose PS5 DE might even outsell S 20-1. S seems to only have demand once all others are sold out.

There is a popular reseller site called Stock X, basically it's a website for anything stock limited, I think it is more sneakers oriented, but it has a electronics section, including hard to find consoles, GPU's etc. Only selling new items as commodities using a bid/ask under a pure market system not ad hoc auctions like ebay, and no specific customer/seller relationship. So this is a gold mine for data and learning market value.

PS5 Blu Ray US plug price is $768 right this second.
PS5 De price is 788 (I am not sure why DE actually selling for more, seems due to constrained supply? seems nonsensical but it is true. In past I have typically seen it selling for a little less than Ps5 Blu Ray)
X Series X is 785 (it has made a comeback and sells at a price on par with PS5 lately, whereas historically less. I dont know whether this is supple related or big games FH5/Halo releasing)
X Series S is $337 (this makes sense as it is often available for MSRP, granted with Christmas so close even the unwanted S often sells out eventually)

So price over MSRP right now=
PS5 ~54%
Series X =57%
PS5 DE= 97%
XSS= 12%

So we can see Series S is clearly the least desired. Also makes me wonder how big a Series X DE could have been seeing how popular the PS5 DE is. If Sony can get the cost down on that and thereafter start producing a lot, it's going to sell ridiculous amount. Alas the S robbed us of that Series X DE, for now, since it would highlight what a poor value proposition the S is even within MS own lineup.


You can also see how many lifetime sold of each through the website.
PS5 Blu Ray= 120,992
PS5 DE= 78,426
Xbox Series X= 61,086
Xbox Series S= 21,471

So combined Ps5 about almost 200,000, Xbox ~82,000 through the website.

Edit: Of interest noticed later, the Halo limited edition Series X. Price $899, 1,298 sales

 

No worries I have a feeling the Series S is gonna get dropped soon (Though I might buy one myself just for testing purposes as the minimum spec)

Good site that stock X it shows what ppl are willing to pay.

Microsoft Xbox Series S 21,469 Number of Sales @ 4% Price Premium
Microsoft Xbox Series X 61,090 Number of Sales @ 57% Price Premium
Sony PlayStation 5 PS5 Digital Edition Console 78,422 Number of Sales @ 97% Price Premium
Sony PlayStation 5 PS5 Blu-ray Edition Console 120,987 Number of Sales @ 54% Price Premium actually less than the series X

There was a lot of ppl here that couldnt fathom why the series S when the specs got announced (now if it had 12 GB and 6TF then OK perhaps its worthwhile as a cheaper machine) Stuff like this and eg the GTA3 remakes make you wonder how these 'highly paid experts' could make such obvious cockups

 

True, no idea why that is. In my local electronic stores they are just sitting on the shelves. No XSX or PS5's or GPU's to be found though.