All purpose Sales and Sales Rumours and Anecdotes [2019 Edition]

[temesgen]

That's analyzing two completely separate problems. You want to know why Xbox has not succeeded globally, when we need to start with why at all it's even it's succeeding locally; if the evidence against xbox is that there's no reason to buy it because:
a) everything is on PC
b) their 1P library sucks
c) has less power
d) terrible good will damage/branding damage from when they launched

then there is no reason to purchase the unit. If you think North American's are so blind to patriotism to the point that they will buy such a completely inferior product 'because' it's North American, that is a terribly misguided assumption.

I think is a little harsh. MS has some very good first party offerings, the issue for me anyways is just not enough of them.

Also my daughter and all her friends prefer MS over Playstation, they assume Xbox is more powerful bc of the 360 and are too young to understand that things changed with current generation wrt power.

I've noticed a lot of friends who are not video game enthusiast, I'll say casuals for lack of a better term. Many are first generation Americans and they bought an Xbox one for their kids because they assumed it was more powerful.

My point being that the Xbox brand is in very good shape in North America as best I can tell and if the new Xbox offers bc and more power they have a very good story to tell, especially with the work they are doing to get more first party titles.

To your point, how does MS get that message across in Asia and Europe?

 

[Silent_Buddha]

To your point, how does MS get that message across in Asia and Europe?

IMO, outside of buying exclusives of existing multi-platform franchises in order to try to force people onto their platform, similar to what Epic are doing on PC, I don't think they can do much to significantly change the balance in most European countries.

That said, in countries like Germany where PC gaming is still relatively popular, closer ties between Xbox and Windows gaming could potentially get a not-insignificant amount of people to either switch or get an Xbox in addition to a PS.

Also, something that keeps getting lost in the numbers due to how well PS4 is doing. Launch aligned, XBO sales in Europe as a whole haven't dropped massively compared to X360. But the ratio of PS4: XBO has gone up massively due to how well the PS4 is doing.

IE - it's not so much that there was a mass exodus of Xbox players switching to PS4 in Europe, but that PS4 got a LOT more people in Europe (and the rest of the world) interested in console gaming again...and they decided to get a PS4.

The job for Microsoft, however, isn't to stay relatively stagnant in Europe, but to grow the brand. GOOD exclusives will be a start. Not screwing up their messaging for the next Xbox like they did with the XBO will be key. Keeping their expectations in check will be needed. Xbox is never going to pass PS in Europe, but that's fine. They can still grow the brand there and have healthy sales without challenging Sony for the sales crown in Europe.

Regards,
SB

 

[temesgen]

IMO, outside of buying exclusives of existing multi-platform franchises in order to try to force people onto their platform, similar to what Epic are doing on PC, I don't think they can do much to significantly change the balance in most European countries.

That said, in countries like Germany where PC gaming is still relatively popular, closer ties between Xbox and Windows gaming could potentially get a not-insignificant amount of people to either switch or get an Xbox in addition to a PS.

Also, something that keeps getting lost in the numbers due to how well PS4 is doing. Launch aligned, XBO sales in Europe as a whole haven't dropped massively compared to X360. But the ratio of PS4: XBO has gone up massively due to how well the PS4 is doing.

IE - it's not so much that there was a mass exodus of Xbox players switching to PS4 in Europe, but that PS4 got a LOT more people in Europe (and the rest of the world) interested in console gaming again...and they decided to get a PS4.

The job for Microsoft, however, isn't to stay relatively stagnant in Europe, but to grow the brand. GOOD exclusives will be a start. Not screwing up their messaging for the next Xbox like they did with the XBO will be key. Keeping their expectations in check will be needed. Xbox is never going to pass PS in Europe, but that's fine. They can still grow the brand there and have healthy sales without challenging Sony for the sales crown in Europe.

Regards,
SB

I think if MS was the platform for FIFA tournaments for example that could help. But it's not easy to crack open those markets...

 

[iroboto]

To your point, how does MS get that message across in Asia and Europe?

Sort of an issue with established markets for console hardware. Most people can only own 1 console especially in real-estate restricted areas like EU and Asia.

I think XCloud and moving their software off the console onto PC is their best chance here for getting more people onto Xbox. But if EU and Asia had to choose a physical box it will always be Sony or Nintendo. Sony has all the 3P MS does, and they have way more access to Japanese games. Library wise you're going to come out on top with Sony or Nintendo.

And if I had to be somewhat cringy in commentary, anti american sentiment can be a real factor here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Americanism

 

[chris1515]

Sort of an issue with established markets for console hardware. Most people can only own 1 console especially in real-estate restricted areas like EU and Asia.

I think XCloud and moving their software off the console onto PC is their best chance here for getting more people onto Xbox. But if EU and Asia had to choose a physical box it will always be Sony or Nintendo. Sony has all the 3P MS does, and they have way more access to Japanese games. Library wise you're going to come out on top with Sony or Nintendo.

And if I had to be somewhat cringy in commentary, anti american sentiment can be a real factor here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Americanism

It has nothing to do with anti americanism. First Sony is a better brand and power is not very important for european. Jim Ryan when he was head of SIE Europe said he has hope of better sales in Europe for God of War because the story was more subtle and he said European like story driven games and the best place to play this type of game is the Sony console. Out of this game Japanese game are more popular than in US and more game release on PS4. For multiplatform game, why people will change of console. Playstation is a better brand than Xbox in Europe, people has no reason to choose an Xbox for third party game and out of some core gamer they don't care about power.

The only thing Sony must do is release PS5 at at the right price point and they will win Asia and Europe. The only reason PS3 lost some marketshare in Europe was 599 euros...And they have an advantage the people playing Sony exclusive will want the next episode of a franchise or play the next game of a studio...

 

[wco81]

I think if MS was the platform for FIFA tournaments for example that could help. But it's not easy to crack open those markets...

Doesn't Sony already sponsor FIFA? Or is it just UEFA?

I see a lot of Sony ads at European futbol games.

 

[goonergaz]

I think if MS was the platform for FIFA tournaments for example that could help. But it's not easy to crack open those markets...

Doesn't Sony already sponsor FIFA? Or is it just UEFA?

I see a lot of Sony ads at European futbol games.

Sony definitely has the Champions League - which is the biggest football competition bar none - the money involved is ridiculous and as people know, in Europe we love our football (soccer)!

Another issue with Xbox was the whole TV focus, they totally ignored the rest of the world (from fuzzy memory) - it was good for US TV but outside that I'm unsure.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

That said, in countries like Germany where PC gaming is still relatively popular, closer ties between Xbox and Windows gaming could potentially get a not-insignificant amount of people to either switch or get an Xbox in addition to a PS.

That's easily MS's best 'in'. Get Pc players buying 'Xbox' and grow Xbox that way, increasing ecosystem moment and encouraging sales of consoles as a result.

And if I had to be somewhat cringy in commentary, anti american sentiment can be a real factor here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Americanism

You can't dismiss nationalism promoting home market sales, and then pull anti-Americanism for failure abroad. If you're willing to accept one, you have to accept both. A percentage, small or large, of people will refuse XB because it's American, and a percentage of US peeps will favour it because it is American. It may not be a lot, but it's still a factor that helps with the home market.

As for anti-Americanism in tech products, how is that affecting sales of Apple stuff?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Another issue with Xbox was the whole TV focus, they totally ignored the rest of the world (from fuzzy memory) - it was good for US TV but outside that I'm unsure.

Yes. It was a move aimed squarely at the home market. Kinect's English voice control too. Basically, XB1 was designed by US peeps around what they'd like in their homes, then presented to the rest of the world where it wasn't terribly useful.

I was talking to a kid yesterday about the choice of symbols on PlayStation and why they are what they are - one, two, three and four lines. These designs are universal and culturally neutral (save for associations with shapes) showing at even the button labelling level, Sony were looking for a worldwide solution. To be fair though, they did kinda get lucky. early devkits were Japanese only, but due to a lack of competition, worldwide devs muddled through. Had there been a strong US/EU console option when PS2 launched which devs could work on with proper documentation they could actually read, perhaps the games would have been skewed a lot more locally and the libraries ending up limiting appeal to regions?

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I was talking to a kid yesterday about the choice of symbols on PlayStation and why they are what they are - one, two, three and four lines.

I'd never noticed this before or even thought it much. I wonder what cultures who don't use alphabets with A, B, X and Y think when they they look at their controllers. I wonder how I'd be if some random kenji symbols were on the buttons. Does it all just become meaningless?

 

[goonergaz]

I just assumed they were 4 of the most common 'shapes' that were universal...it's really interesting though how they approach things from a universal PoV, which is kind of what I'm saying, you should be looking to the broadest appeal with as many factors as possible. I know it's not a simple as suggested but it's like with OXB - a big issue was the stupidly large controller - it was all very 'big and American' (I know they fixed it, but it goes to show they were short-sighted). Sony have responded to controller size criticism by making theirs a bit bigger also, so those complaints are no longer valid.

 

[iroboto]

As for anti-Americanism in tech products, how is that affecting sales of Apple stuff?

i said it was cringy commentary. =P You're right that exactly those percentages exist. Where there will be some folks that will only buy domestic and never foreign and etc. I think just think that in some areas of the world, the sentiment is larger - like in Japan and China.
Your'e right it comes off as hypocritical.
Apple is about the only brand I've seen that has managed to shine as a consumer product. My cousin who lives in Japan specifically says that Apple is the only product Japanese have edit (really) embraced because the product feels like it has Japanese influence infused into it. I guess it's more about the quality the build etc. I dont know, i don't honestly live there and it's a moot point not really worth mentioning. I think the tldr; on it was; Apple products were definitely the best at the time. So that trumps all. Same with China, but there is now a strong movement towards Huawei now.

You're right i think culturally xbox is 'effed' in Japan.. They've got to completely re-engineer the brand completely differently to make it work there, and thus commit to a huge risk with what they're doing in their home business.

If xbox is serious to succeed in japan, it would take a lot to make it work. A lot, I think a lot more than MS is willing to invest.

 

[iroboto]

Another issue with Xbox was the whole TV focus, they totally ignored the rest of the world (from fuzzy memory) - it was good for US TV but outside that I'm unsure.

Yea that was an apocalyptic failure. Everything that they made xbox one for was laser focused on a very small niche of the western market. In canada we don't really care that much about NFL and shit, and we follow the US on everything. Cord cutting was already a thing here by the time XBO was introduced. The content was all american, and we weren't even allowed access to a lot of it.

I would say, they went way too casual. Ignored the gaming market entirely looking at Google and Netflix and other content creation folks, and just lost sight of the video game markets. They went off and did their own shit.

Then of course the follow-up of no commitment to japanese games.

I know where they failed with Xbox One. OG Xbox and 360 was I guess more of the same, I'm not sure. Same issues just less of them. 360 was so successful in america that perhaps no one was paying attention to their dismal Asia performance.
But now that it's _not_ successful domestically, it's easy to see where all their failings are internationally. But even domestically, they've got issues they need to work out, and I think if they have not been making the right strides to resolve some things, the console would have gone under. Because lets face it, TV in is the next dead feature following kinect.

Game Pass, xCloud, and moving their games off their hardware platform gives them open space to work. It resolves some issues, we'll have to see how they handle next gen. Game Pass might be a doorway for a lot of foreign games to enter the market thus open up the space for foreign developers. They have ML translation tools, so I'm not sure why they wouldn't be on that. Maybe they are, I don't know. Phil visits japan, but this fix is going to take a long time.

 

[goonergaz]

I think a chunk of X360 success is down to the 'failures' of PS3 (late to market, too expensive, no 'must have' exclusives etc) - whilst it also got a few things right...I wonder if PS3 had been more inline price-wise whether Xbox would still be around.

 

[iroboto]

I think a chunk of X360 success is down to the 'failures' of PS3 (late to market, too expensive, no 'must have' exclusives etc) - whilst it also got a few things right...I wonder if PS3 had been more inline price-wise whether Xbox would still be around.

those were different times. MS made the move into the living room because they were fearing Sony entering the silicon/software space and thus were willing to throw money to prevent a new entrant.

With PS3, Sony made a major move to try to get into the silicon space and their cell chip never took off. Sure it was a game console, but I'm sure they had much larger desires with their design had they succeeded.

It's sort of funny when I think about it. If MS never entered the market and gave free reign to Sony, if the silicon landscape would have changed. An interesting thing to ponder.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

PC gaming in big in Asia, along with internet cafe type places. So for MS to do well their, they need to get XBox on PC and make that the platform for Asian's. Except Japan which is dead to them. Basically dead to anything except mobile gaming! Room really for only one console. As Japanese devs are into selling their wares to the West anywhere, though, it doesn't matter.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

With PS3, Sony made a major move to try to get into the silicon space and their cell chip never took off. Sure it was a game console, but I'm sure they had much larger desires with their design had they succeeded.

You have that backwards. For decades Sony used to design and fab a lot of semiconductors, both for themselves and others, the era of PS3 was when they left that all behind.

 

[Shortbread]

You have that backwards. For decades Sony used to design and fab a lot of semiconductors, both for themselves and others, the era of PS3 was when they left that all behind.

Not necessarily. Sony still designs and fabricates audio and video processors, as well as microprocessors for robotics and navigation systems.

 

[iroboto]

You have that backwards. For decades Sony used to design and fab a lot of semiconductors, both for themselves and others, the era of PS3 was when they left that all behind.

Yea, you're right, they were designing a lot of their own stuff, probably still do when it comes to different things, but it was when they entered the console market, with an alternative sort of living room PC that made Bill Gates jump into the console business of some sort. There was an overarching fear of them having an affect on their business in the PC space. Though I'm not sure what they were afraid of back then, but perhaps they saw something. Enough to want to put forward the funds to enter the console race.

 

[Shortbread]

Yea, you're right, they were designing a lot of their own stuff, probably still do when it comes to different things, but it was when they entered the console market, with an alternative sort of living room PC that made Bill Gates jump into the console business of some sort. There was an overarching fear of them having an affect on their business in the PC space. Though I'm not sure what they were afraid of back then, but perhaps they saw something. Enough to want to put forward the funds to enter the console race.

That the console 'gaming experience' was growing towards something more (the IoT), other than just gaming. The ideas put forth by Sega that Dreamcast was a system designed for future applications towards connecting gamers (socially and gaming), and having media app capabilities on playing back stored CD files of jpg, mpg, AVI and audio files. Ideas which Microsoft was helping to craft on Dreamcast's Windows CE OS, before Sony PS2 rained on their parade. Put simply, Microsoft wasn't necessarily worried about console gaming, but more so the implications towards integrating features for social communications, social interactions, and other applications usually reserved in the PC space.