All purpose Sales and Sales Rumours and Anecdotes [2019 Edition]

[BRiT]

Having such a huge backwards compatible catalog of games is more reason to get both consoles or to cross over to get the other console too. Now one can play all Sony titles from 2013 onward to 2027 (PS4 to PS5) and all MS titles from 2013 to 2027 (Xbox One to Xbox Next) with sizable number of MS titles going back to 2005 for X360 titles and a handful of titles going back to 2001 for Original Generation Xbox titles.

 

[Shortbread]

UK Charts: Days Gone defeats Mortal Kombat 11 to claim No.1

Sony's Days Gone comfortably beat Mortal Kombat 11 in the UK boxed games charts.

Its launch week physical sales are 27% lower than last year's PS4 exclusive action adventure God of War. It is actually a decent performance when you consider this is a new IP - and the review scores for this new game have not been as impressive as last year's multi-award winning effort.

Mortal Kombat 11 had to settle for No.2 as a result. The game's debut performance is 43.6% smaller than 2015's Mortal Kombat X (note: digital sales are not included, and download sales have improved significantly over the last four years). However, sales are slightly up over 2017's Injustice 2, which is another beat 'em up developed by NetherRealm featuring DC characters.

Mortal Kombat 11 sold best on PS4, with 71% of sales coming on Sony's platform.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Even accounting for the solid pre-order numbers, beating MK11 (83% metacritic) is unexpected. Sales under 27% below of God of War also suggests that perhaps gamers are not utterly fatigued by the zombie-eque apocalypse.

But mostly, that metacritic scores really aren't that useful for indicating sales.

Having such a huge backwards compatible catalog of games is more reason to get both consoles or to cross over to get the other console too. Now one can play all Sony titles from 2013 onward to 2027 (PS4 to PS5) and all MS titles from 2013 to 2027 (Xbox One to Xbox Next) with sizable number of MS titles going back to 2005 for X360 titles and a handful of titles going back to 2001 for Original Generation Xbox titles.

Maybe. Suppose you were a PS2 owner who went 360 last gen, played all those games and went PS4 this gen? Even assuming you still have those 360 games, would you buy an Xbox as well to replay those games? I guess we'll find out 12-18 months after the nextgen consoles launch. The other way around too. If you went Xbox One this gen, why also buy a PS5 nextgen? It's an added cost and you still need to invest in another platform's game library.

 

[goonergaz]

Maybe. Suppose you were a PS2 owner who went 360 last gen, played all those games and went PS4 this gen? Even assuming you still have those 360 games, would you buy an Xbox as well to replay those games? I guess we'll find out 12-18 months after the nextgen consoles launch. The other way around too. If you went Xbox One this gen, why also buy a PS5 nextgen? It's an added cost and you still need to invest in another platform's game library.

I personally don't think people will put too much stock into playing 'older than this gen' games next gen. It's a nice to have feature, but if you're buying a console because it can play a X360/OXB game then there's something seriously wrong with the new consoles line-up! As long as it does this gen out of the box that will suffice.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

That's sadly not true, because lots of classic games haven't gotten updates (sequels or remakes). Only the rare AAA, flagship games get remakes. There's a few PS2 games I'd like to play again. PS3 BC wasn't important for them because they were played to death on PS2, but going forwards, seeing as there's never going to be a Champions of Norrath remake or sequel, it's something I'd like to play (actually am playing again on PC emulator with friends).

So, yeah, one gen BC isn't that important as you still may have the old console and you still remember those games anyway. It's going back further where BC takes on more value IMHO.

 

[mrcorbo]

Maybe. Suppose you were a PS2 owner who went 360 last gen, played all those games and went PS4 this gen? Even assuming you still have those 360 games, would you buy an Xbox as well to replay those games? I guess we'll find out 12-18 months after the nextgen consoles launch. The other way around too. If you went Xbox One this gen, why also buy a PS5 nextgen? It's an added cost and you still need to invest in another platform's game library.

The thing is, I think MS are well aware of the difficulties of getting people who are already invested into the Playstation ecosystem to buy an Xbox console next gen, either instead of or in addition to a Playstation console, which is why they are pursuing so many different avenues to enable people to engage with the Xbox ecosystem without investing in a console. There will be the option to engage on PC, if you have one, or via streaming if you don't. Depending on the degree of success they have with this, it may end up being a moot point.

 

[goonergaz]

That's sadly not true, because lots of classic games haven't gotten updates (sequels or remakes). Only the rare AAA, flagship games get remakes. There's a few PS2 games I'd like to play again. PS3 BC wasn't important for them because they were played to death on PS2, but going forwards, seeing as there's never going to be a Champions of Norrath remake or sequel, it's something I'd like to play (actually am playing again on PC emulator with friends).

So, yeah, one gen BC isn't that important as you still may have the old console and you still remember those games anyway. It's going back further where BC takes on more value IMHO.

I'm going to have to disagree, BC (for me) is about (in this order);

1) softening the financial blow moving to the new gen (being able to sell the old h/w to help finance)
2) being able to continue the games I'm currently playing (during the slow start)
3) complete my backlog of current gen games or pick up games I missed out on (during the slow start)
4) have the odd blast on some classics

As you can see, for me it's very low on the list...and for most others I suspect it's also the same, again, is there any evidence that MS being so great with BC that Xbox sales are picking up or PlayStation sales slowing down - or any trends to show that? Is there evidence that when a particular game get's released on BC that the Xbox hardware sees a spike in sales? Not even RDR which was a massive release on BC showed anything other than an interest in buying the software...therefore (IMHO) BC beyond current gen is not important (enough) for someone to buy one console over another.

 

[iroboto]

As you can see, for me it's very low on the list...and for most others I suspect it's also the same, again, is there any evidence that MS being so great with BC that Xbox sales are picking up or PlayStation sales slowing down - or any trends to show that? Is there evidence that when a particular game get's released on BC that the Xbox hardware sees a spike in sales? Not even RDR which was a massive release on BC showed anything other than an interest in buying the software...therefore (IMHO) BC beyond current gen is not important (enough) for someone to buy one console over another.

Well... they didn't get flat out annihilated so there is that. Considering everything and the value proposition, there was a ton of mind share that this was going to be the end of MS early on because of the weaker system and the weaker exclusives.

They've managed to hold on quite well given the contrary, they have 0 of the critical mass momentum that Sony has. They don'tr have the power at the base system. They had a bunch of negative press about trading games and privacy issues with Kinect, and they don't have the exclusive software.

And they appear to be within 20% of Sony's hardware sales this late into the generation. Not bad all things considered, its clear that people want the Xbox for something.

I don't we see BC moving hardware. But there has been ample evidence of software sales spikes though when a beloved title goes BC.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I doubt BC will ever result in selling hardware the way you suggest; the cost of a console just to play an old game makes it prohibitively expensive. Anyone that literally wanted to play one old game would either buy an old console or buy a used XB1, and maybe sell it afterwards.

You end up with a very different value proposition on a new generation though where the cost of the hardware is independent of the BC feature - you are going to spend that money anyway, so every extra game you can play is included in that entry price. Thus, a PS5 with zero BC offers me all the PS5 games for that £300-400 entry price or whatever. A PS5 with PS4 BC offers me all those games and all the games I've recently played. A PS5 will full BC offers me all the games ever including some I haven't played in ages and wouldn't mind revisiting. Option 3 is of not insignificant value.

It's interesting to note the change in argument from me since the epic "Importance of BC" thread years ago. Back then it was about PS3 having BC. Back then, PS1 games were old and ugly (and still are!) and PS2 games were still fresh in the memory. Back then it was easy to argue that people buy a new console for the new experiences that are better. However, over the years it's become very apparent that games, like all arts, move in fashions, and ideas you want to see get updated, next-gen experiences instead just get forgotten as devs chase the next Big Thing. If you want to revisit these experiences, especially sharing them with your family as you would old TV programmes and movies you watched that are freely available to view, you are going to either need BC or old hardware, and to most folk keeping old hardware isn't going to happen. So, ideally, yes, we don't need old-game BC because we'll be playing new, improved versions of those games. Realistically, those games won't get updated versions and you'll have to go back to the original. If you liked watching "Mr. Ed" or "The Munsters" or "Street Hawk", you'll need to buy the box sets because they aren't going to make them like that any more (if they tried a reboot, they'd be all dark and gritty!). If you want to share the joy of "Back To The Future" with your kids, you'll need to buy the original on a streaming service rather than wait for a (lame) remake. If you want to play Champions Of Norrath or Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance or XMen Legends II with your family, you need BC (or emulation) because these games aren't getting sequels. If they were, they'd be MT riddled Battle Royale card-battlers or something ghastly!

 

[goonergaz]

And they appear to be within 20% of Sony's hardware sales this late into the generation. Not bad all things considered, its clear that people want the Xbox for something.

Based on what? They are 2:1 behind and growing further behind from what I can see (WW)

I don't we see BC moving hardware. But there has been ample evidence of software sales spikes though when a beloved title goes BC.

As I said, and all that does is show that owners do appreciate the option/functionality. But I'm not going to 'switch sides' because of such a feature.

 

[iroboto]

Based on what? They are 2:1 behind and growing further behind from what I can see (WW)



As I said, and all that does is show that owners do appreciate the option/functionality. But I'm not going to 'switch sides' because of such a feature.

NPD sales. They aren't making waves outside of their established markets. It's not really a competition of selling when that market has no desire for your product. The issue with comparing WW, is that Sony has been dominant WW since the beginning of their console business and this has never been the case for Xbox which has only been NA and UK.

On the topic of BC.; BC is more important this coming gen than last gen.
Last gen didn't have games that get patched continuously and players are expected to play their titles for years on end. PS5 going without BC would have been an impediment to their success.

ignoring the topic of sales and sticking on BC though; whiile I can see it's tempting to use last gen as an indicator of success for next gen - I don't think the two are related. That's like saying tablets and mobile phones wanted to stay with keys all the time and after the iphone launched people still wanted to stay with physical keys.

I think this gen is being largely online has set a change in games, with patches etc, that mark a change in console gaming such that BC is necessary feature. So that's all I'm going to say with that, Sony moving forward with BC I think is acknowledgement of that. And hell, since they've got an insane marketing deal with Destiny, they better find a way to keep Destiny moving forward one gen to the next.

 

[goonergaz]

NPD sales. They aren't making waves outside of their established markets. It's not really a competition of selling when that market has no desire for your product. The issue with comparing WW, is that Sony has been dominant WW since the beginning of their console business and this has never been the case for Xbox which has only been NA and UK.

On the topic of BC.; BC is more important this coming gen than last gen.
Last gen didn't have games that get patched continuously and players are expected to play their titles for years on end. PS5 going without BC would have been an impediment to their success.

ignoring the topic of sales and sticking on BC though; whiile I can see it's tempting to use last gen as an indicator of success for next gen - I don't think the two are related. That's like saying tablets and mobile phones wanted to stay with keys all the time and after the iphone launched people still wanted to stay with physical keys.

I think this gen is being largely online has set a change in games, with patches etc, that mark a change in console gaming such that BC is necessary feature. So that's all I'm going to say with that, Sony moving forward with BC I think is acknowledgement of that. And hell, since they've got an insane marketing deal with Destiny, they better find a way to keep Destiny moving forward one gen to the next.

I'm not sure it's overly fair to only compare against their strongest market...the market that happens to also be the home of MS and where support is often for the home made product!

I also thought last gen games did get lot's of patches? Obviously not as much as this gen but still a lot of patches from memory.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Certainly on PS3, patches cost devs money - Sony charged them. That's been lifted so devs are free to update their games as and when they want.
https://kotaku.com/wait-it-costs-40-000-to-patch-a-console-game-5884842
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...rges-developers-to-patch-their-xbox-360-games
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-07-19-save-corrupting-fez-patch-back-online

Fez developer Polytron has decided to re-issue the buggy patch that corrupted some player's save files.
Why? Because fixing it would require the very costly process of getting the game re-certified.
"Microsoft would charge us tens of thousands of dollars to re-certify the game," the studio wrote on its blog.

 

[iroboto]

I'm not sure it's overly fair to only compare against their strongest market...the market that happens to also be the home of MS and where support is often for the home made product!

I also thought last gen games did get lot's of patches? Obviously not as much as this gen but still a lot of patches from memory.

Well what value does having 'home' advantage really? We're trying to figure out why people are buying xbox still, and it can't be because of home advantage. If you want to know why people are still buying xbox, you need look at the zones in which people are buying xbox not at the zones in which people aren't buying xbox; because then you're just introducing more possible variables that could be their demise. You want some form of consistent baseline to compare against the competition. And where people are actually buying xbox, on a month to month basis, they seem within 20% of sales of their main competitor.

The markets have changed, we have access to better technologies and games have changed to accommodate for that.
We have a whole segment of 'live' type games, even single player games are supported with 'live' events.
It's been more than just a technological shift though, it's a market switch. People are comfortable with microtransactions etc.

 

[goonergaz]

Home advantage is what it is, everyone knows that countries are often 'behind' products made by their country...this is not a new idea! And suggesting using data from countries where is has good support is flawed because, well, you're already selling quite well there - you need to try and figure out what will 'shift the needle' in other countries. You state yourself that in the US & UK M/S are already ~20% within PS4 sales, so that's not too bad but it just emphasises how bad things are elsewhere! Next gen switching US & UK fortunes around will not be enough alone...so what is it that turns off the rest of the world? - that's what MS need to find the cure for (IMO) because if they find that then they might find that US & UK sales increase also (picking up those staunch PS fans).

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Well what value does having 'home' advantage really?

In the case of Xbox, it was a very 'American' brand at launch with games that were strongly favoured in NA (and by association, UK which has strong parallels with US tastes) enabling it to secure a strong presence, plus of course latent nationalism which generally makes locally produced more favourable. In the rest of the world, the console (massive box), games (lack of JRPGs etc), and MS name worked against it.

Basically, home advantage means you naturally generate a product with affinity for your local market, so it's an easier sell. Reaching beyond that requires a more diverse product that manages to avoid deterring other markets by its image. The Japanese console have managed to secure worldwide appeal, whereas XB has managed kinda 2:1:0 NA:EU:JPN for all iterations, it seems.

 

[mrcorbo]

In the case of Xbox, it was a very 'American' brand at launch with games that were strongly favoured in NA (and by association, UK which has strong parallels with US tastes) enabling it to secure a strong presence, plus of course latent nationalism which generally makes locally produced more favourable. In the rest of the world, the console (massive box), games (lack of JRPGs etc), and MS name worked against it.

Basically, home advantage means you naturally generate a product with affinity for your local market, so it's an easier sell. Reaching beyond that requires a more diverse product that manages to avoid deterring other markets by its image. The Japanese console have managed to secure worldwide appeal, whereas XB has managed kinda 2:1:0 NA:EU:JPN for all iterations, it seems.

Not factor here (in the US), as far as I can tell for this class of product (or most classes of product for that matter).

 

[iroboto]

In the case of Xbox, it was a very 'American' brand at launch with games that were strongly favoured in NA (and by association, UK which has strong parallels with US tastes) enabling it to secure a strong presence, plus of course latent nationalism which generally makes locally produced more favourable. In the rest of the world, the console (massive box), games (lack of JRPGs etc), and MS name worked against it.

Basically, home advantage means you naturally generate a product with affinity for your local market, so it's an easier sell. Reaching beyond that requires a more diverse product that manages to avoid deterring other markets by its image. The Japanese console have managed to secure worldwide appeal, whereas XB has managed kinda 2:1:0 NA:EU:JPN for all iterations, it seems.

I'm more inclined to agree that the product is designed with the north american and UK markets in mind. The games certainly are.
We have a problem in NA in buying our own produced goods, that's why there has been such a 'advertising' campaign of buying locally made things, because we don't, they are often pricier with equivalent or less quality. We just buy stuff that is good and cheap like anyone else does.

 

[iroboto]

where is has good support is flawed because, well, you're already selling quite well there - you need to try and figure out what will 'shift the needle' in other countries. You state yourself that in the US & UK M/S are already ~20% within PS4 sales, so that's not too bad but it just emphasises how bad things are elsewhere!

That's analyzing two completely separate problems. You want to know why Xbox has not succeeded globally, when we need to start with why at all it's even it's succeeding locally; if the evidence against xbox is that there's no reason to buy it because:
a) everything is on PC
b) their 1P library sucks
c) has less power
d) terrible good will damage/branding damage from when they launched

then there is no reason to purchase the unit. If you think North American's are so blind to patriotism to the point that they will buy such a completely inferior product 'because' it's North American, that is a terribly misguided assumption.

 

[goonergaz]

That's analyzing two completely separate problems. You want to know why Xbox has not succeeded globally, when we need to start with why at all it's even it's succeeding locally; if the evidence against xbox is that there's no reason to buy it because:
a) everything is on PC
b) their 1P library sucks
c) has less power
d) terrible good will damage/branding damage from when they launched

then there is no reason to purchase the unit. If you think North American's are so blind to patriotism to the point that they will buy such a completely inferior product 'because' it's North American, that is a terribly misguided assumption.

I never said that, but It’s more misguided or naive to ignore the factor.

And yes, in my opinion it’s more important to fix the big problem than improve the minor problem.