All purpose sales and sales rumors/anecdotes thread next gen+

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djskribbles said:
And ps4 also has Guilty Gear XRD. Yes it's also on ps3 but that's two fighting games vs one that were rated considerably higher than Killer Instinct.
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Well you see KI fans are monogamous, they never play another fighting game. Those other fighting game players are morally suspect, they buy lots of fighting games, even if they get a free one made by the makers of MK.
 
DrJay24 said:
Well you see KI fans are monogamous, they never play another fighting game. Those other fighting game players are morally suspect, they buy lots of fighting games, even if they get a free one made by the makers of MK.
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Ha! I used to be like this with Tekken. You develop that muscle memory that gets destroyed if you play another fighting game for any period of time. I went to VirtuaFighter on PS3 and my l33t Tekken fighting skills evaporated as though they never existed! :no:
 
DrJay24 said:
The fact remains that there is a clear bias for certain genres.

Evolve, marketed by MS, 50/50 in the UK. Witcher 3, marketed by MS, 60/40 towards PS4.

Battlefield Hardline nearly 50/50 in UK and sold more release month on XB1 according to NPD.

Motal Kombat X; PS4 61% XB1 38%, another well known genre bias.

Dark Souls 2 debuted at #15 for PS4 and #22 on XB1 in UK, despite Bloodborne coming out two weeks earlier on the PS4.

Borderlands charted higher for XB1 in the UK.

Final Fantasy Type 0 PS4 (78%) vs XBO (22%) in UK.
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And sales between console is irrelevant as their user bases are not equal. Even more so if you're going to limit it to one region.

What I posted was the top 20 titles on each platform. Meaning those were the most popular titles on each platform. Worldwide. Not in the UK. Not in N.A. Not in Spain. Not in Germany. But worldwide. Something that is likely more representative of all users of the devices in question. For example, it's highly unlikely that Forza 5 was the 9th most popular XBO title in N.A. However, when looking at the worldwide XBO userbase it was.

For shooters. Battlefield is exactly as popular to XBO users as it was to PS4 users. Both were the 11th most popular title for users of those platforms. Destiny is exactly as popular to XBO users as it was to PS4 users. Both were the 4th most popular title for users of their respective consoles.

The only outlier was COD. But here, notice a trend. COD: Ghosts is the 6th most popular title on XBO while it is the 8th most popular title on PS4. A clear preference for the XBO userbase. But move on to the newer COD: AW and it is number 1 in popularity among XBO users while number 2 in popularity in PS4 users. COD is now almost as popular to PS4 users as it is to XBO users. And now that PS4 has the marketing partnership with Activision, I'd be willing to bet that the next COD will be either as popular on PS4 as XBO, or that it will actually be more popular to PS4 users than XBO users.

Looked at in terms of sales. This means Battlefield sold more copies on PS4 than XBO. Destiny sold more copies on PS4 than XBO. COD: Ghosts might or might not have sold more copies on PS4 than XBO. And COD: AW has a very good chance of having sold more copies on PS4 than XBO. But that doesn't mean PS4 is the console of choice for shooters because shooters sold better on PS4. It's just a consequence of PS4 having a larger world wide install base.

Other than that. You don't have anything that is directly comparable. Halo MCC: is 3 games in one. KZ: SF while pretty is generally considered an average shooter at best. And Titanfall if it had been multi-platform quite likely would have been similarly attractive to the userbases of both platforms. Titanfall 2 which will be multiplatform will likely have the same popularity on each console.

In other words, the tropes of the past are less and less meaningful as players migrate from one platform to the other over time. Even more so if you focus on multiplatform titles that are available to users on each platform. Exclusives cloudy the waters because they aren't directly comparable.

Regards,
SB
 
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Silent_Buddha said:
And sales between console is irrelevant as their user bases are not equal. Even more so if you're going to limit it to one region.

What I posted was the top 20 titles on each platform. Meaning those were the most popular titles on each platform. Worldwide. Not in the UK. Not in N.A. Not in Spain. Not in Germany. But worldwide. Something that is likely more representative of all users of the devices in question. For example, it's highly unlikely that Forza 5 was the 9th most popular XBO title in N.A. However, when looking at the worldwide XBO userbase it was.

For shooters. Battlefield is exactly as popular to XBO users as it was to PS4 users. Both were the 11th most popular title for users of those platforms. Destiny is exactly as popular to XBO users as it was to PS4 users. Both were the 4th most popular title for users of their respective consoles.

The only outlier was COD. But here, notice a trend. COD: Ghosts is the 6th most popular title on XBO while it is the 8th most popular title on PS4. A clear preference for the XBO userbase. But move on to the newer COD: AW and it is number 1 in popularity among XBO users while number 2 in popularity in PS4 users. COD is now almost as popular to PS4 users as it is to XBO users. And now that PS4 has the marketing partnership with Activision, I'd be willing to bet that the next COD will be either as popular on PS4 as XBO, or that it will actually be more popular to PS4 users than XBO users.

Looked at in terms of sales. This means Battlefield sold more copies on PS4 than XBO. Destiny sold more copies on PS4 than XBO. COD: Ghosts might or might not have sold more copies on PS4 than XBO. And COD: AW has a very good chance of having sold more copies on PS4 than XBO. But that doesn't mean PS4 is the console of choice for shooters because shooters sold better on PS4. It's just a consequence of PS4 having a larger world wide install base.

Other than that. You don't have anything that is directly comparable. Halo MCC: is 3 games in one. KZ: SF while pretty is generally considered an average shooter at best. And Titanfall if it had been multi-platform quite likely would have been similarly attractive to the userbases of both platforms. Titanfall 2 which will be multiplatform will likely have the same popularity on each console.

In other words, the tropes of the past are less and less meaningful as players migrate from one platform to the other over time. Even more so if you focus on multiplatform titles that are available to users on each platform. Exclusives cloudy the waters because they aren't directly comparable.

Regards,
SB
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But in the top 10 (where the main meat of the sales are) half are FPSs on XBO and a third are on PS4 , and 3rd person games are 4:3 in favour of PS4

Or put it another way, 55% of sales (units now) of the top 10 on XBO were FPSs vs 39% of PS4...but you like to use top 20 as it strengthened your arguement...so I'll include those...

45% of all sales in the top 20 were for FPSs on XBO vs 31% on PS4 (essentially 50% less) and no doubt that figure will be even more scewed when Halo comes out.
 
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Silent_Buddha said:
And sales between console is irrelevant as their user bases are not equal. Even more so if you're going to limit it to one region.
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First I started my part of this limited to NA and then added UK as a surrogate since it has similar buying habits and better numbers. Second the install base is part of the context and I assumed you would have figured that into it.

Knowing the PS4 installbase is larger in the UK....

Evolve, a 2015 online centric shooter marketed by MS had a 50/50 split.

Witcher 3, a 2015 single player RPG marketed by MS had a 60/40 split favoring the PS4.

So is there a bias? Certainly looks that way, whether it is RPG/shooter or offline/online can be debated (though those two groups are highly correlated).

And again...

Battlefield Hardline a online centric shooter had a roughly 50/50 split in UK and sold more release month on XB1 according to NPD despite having the smaller install base in both regions.

All this top 25 list stuff is not good data IMO. What we would really like is an attach rate per title. Does 12% of XB1 own COD and 8% on the PS4? We don't know that, all we know is how title performed relative to other titles on a single platform without real numbers. As you say exclusives complicate things because they shift multiplatform games up or down. We also don't know if #9 sold 100% more on the XB1 list as #10 while on the PS4 list it was 30% more. Its just like Amazon sales rankings, all you can say is a title that is higher up is selling better, but you don't know how much better. This is even worse, you have two lists and no way to register them.


In other words, the tropes of the past are less and less meaningful as players migrate from one platform to the other over time.
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I never said anything absolute, so I agree. A bias can be small or large. I also was talking about NA/UK and considering the core gamers, the ones who pre-order and buy games at full price during release week.
 
goonergaz said:
If we use his data source it's close, 34.9% on XBO and 28.7% on PS4.
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What source would that be? I don't see those numbers or a link. Even if these numbers are real, 35% to 29% is a kind of bias I'm talking about. No one is talking about orders of magnitude.
 
So, AC games sold 38% to XBO owners and 23.9% to PS4 owners....I guess this means 3rd person more popular on XBO according to Silent_Buddha right?

But if you include all the 3rd person games the stats are 36.9% vs 32.8% in PS4s favour...GTA at 29% to 21.5% in favour of PS4 likely caused a chunk of that, but the facts are FPSs sell better on XBO and 3rd person better on PS4 (if the data is correct)
 
Rikimaru said:
AC Unity and Black Flag were included almost in every xbox box.
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Indeed, this was my point about picking one game to use as a base for arguement and that you can use stats to 'prove' whatever you want them to. I mean, of those sales how much time was spent playing each game? Surely that's even more important if we're trying to figure out which owners prefer what games?
 
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temesgen said:
Which in part is why I think BC could be very helpful for XB1, MS has quite a few 360 owners who have sat out or moved to PS4. Offering BC for free will entice some to stick with XBOX bc in doing so they can keep the software they have already invested in.
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I'd argue that BC is fare more important in the first year of a new console. I'd say that aside from being an extreme "nice-to-have" for existing XB1 owners, I wouldn't imagine it to factor into purchasing decisions at all at this point. It certainly didn't seem to last gen, as the removal of BC from later PS3 models didn't negatively impact sales at all, if anything it was the opposite due to the lower BOM allowing for a lower sale price at retail for the HW.

I think it's too late for BC to impact sales for XB1. I think that the network effects of the greater PS4 installed base and mindshare will overcome any potential benefit BC for XB1 brings.

Ultimately sales will continue to be driven by games. And exclusives, together with HW and software features that differentiate the HW will be what swings the sales one way or the other for XB1 and PS4.

Regardless XB has solid momentum going into the hols.
 
Prophecy2k said:
I'd argue that BC is fare more important in the first year of a new console. I'd say that aside from being an extreme "nice-to-have" for existing XB1 owners, I wouldn't imagine it to factor into purchasing decisions at all at this point. It certainly didn't seem to last gen, as the removal of BC from later PS3 models didn't negatively impact sales at all, if anything it was the opposite due to the lower BOM allowing for a lower sale price at retail for the HW.

I think it's too late for BC to impact sales for XB1. I think that the network effects of the greater PS4 installed base and mindshare will overcome any potential benefit BC for XB1 brings.

Ultimately sales will continue to be driven by games. And exclusives, together with HW and software features that differentiate the HW will be what swings the sales one way or the other for XB1 and PS4.

Regardless XB has solid momentum going into the hols.
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It depends on how many 360 owners are still sitting on the sidelines. The sales of XB1 are decent but a decent number of 360 owners seem to have flipped to the PS4. More will follow BC of the online multiplayer multiplier but MS can slow the bleeding if they can give 360 users a smoother transition to XB1. This is done by bring current investment in software and increasing the value of XB1 relative to PS4 by decreasing price and and additional software at the point of sale. There is little reason to invest in the real cost of BC otherwise in the absence of monetization. If anything free BC cannibalizes potential revenue from HD remakes.
 
temesgen said:
It depends on how many 360 owners are still sitting on the sidelines. The sales of XB1 are decent but a decent number of 360 owners seem to have flipped to the PS4. More will follow BC of the online multiplayer multiplier but MS can slow the bleeding if they can give 360 users a smoother transition to XB1. This is done by bring current investment in software and increasing the value of XB1 relative to PS4 by decreasing price and and additional software at the point of sale. There is little reason to invest in the real cost of BC otherwise in the absence of monetization. If anything free BC cannibalizes potential revenue from HD remakes.
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The point that I'm making is that after the first year or so of a new gen. it becomes less about "how can I upgrade but still have access to by old back-catalogue of games during the inevitable early new-gen game drought?", and more about "what new-gen blockbusters do I really wanna play and which console out of my options has the current best game library for me?"

In the first year of a console launch, BC is relevant because there just aren't that many games released on the new-gen consoles. At this point however, BC shouldn't really make much of a difference to HW purchasing decisions, because anyone that has stuck it out with their last gen console until now, has probably had their fill of last gen games already, and is upgrading for the new stuff.
 
I agree, the price drop would've got most of those waiting for a reason to buy. I.e. The fanboys not wanting to get a ps4, but realistic enough to know paying a premium for a weaker console is not a good move.
 
Prophecy2k said:
The point that I'm making is that after the first year or so of a new gen. it becomes less about "how can I upgrade but still have access to by old back-catalogue of games during the inevitable early new-gen game drought?", and more about "what new-gen blockbusters do I really wanna play and which console out of my options has the current best game library for me?"

In the first year of a console launch, BC is relevant because there just aren't that many games released on the new-gen consoles. At this point however, BC shouldn't really make much of a difference to HW purchasing decisions, because anyone that has stuck it out with their last gen console until now, has probably had their fill of last gen games already, and is upgrading for the new stuff.
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Again its a function of how many people are investing in your platform and the reasons consumers might choose to delay making a decision in their next platform of choice. Increasing the perceived value of XB1 in part due to price cuts and value added services helps those sitting out or considering alternatives to reengage.

Year 1, year 4 it doesn't matter as much as overall breakdown of sales and sidelined demand potential.


That said I do agree that historically this issue has been largely settled early in the generation however the PS3/360 race was very much a marathon with the PS3 finding its legs much later than it should have been able to.

Similarly while the PS4 appears to have this generation tied down at this point. My person view is that in the markets MS values they are doing quite a bit to remain competitive in spite of their initial challenges. NA and UK could very well ultimately end up favoring MS and that consumer may very well be worth several multiples of consumers in other markets which makes the calculus of winners and loser far more difficult to calculate and in part is a justification for the investment in services like BC which are hard to monetize and really only add to the cost and complexity of development.

To put it another way IMO if MS was doing better with consumers BC would not have happened in its current iteration.
 
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