All purpose Sales and Sales Rumors and Anecdotes [2016 Edition]

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I agree. I upgraded from PS4 to Pro and had I been holding off and invested now I would have still gone for Pro but I don't think that is a bigger market than the number of people for which PS4 performance is more than good enough. I don't think Scorpio will change that, it's likely to be more costly still and the appeal as marginal if not more.

I personally like having the option of a more expensive more powerful console but I think I'm in a minority. And when Scorpio launches will I switch? No, because I'll be four years invested in Sony's ecosystem. I'm only likely to jump ecosystems when there is a clean break in software support - if there ever is In the future. These midgen options will not change that.
 
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Performance is important, but there are many more important factors. The above graph shows there's no significant correlation between those who care about performance, and their choice of platform. At least not at the current performance difference between XB1/PS4, and not even the PS4Pro. Game selection is personal tastes, you can't sway someone towards the XB1 if their favorite games ever were TLoU and Knack. Community is a major aspect, I don't see many gamers buying a PS4 if all their friends have an XB1. The PS4 Slim sales are showing the importance of the value proposition versus the Pro. Bundles also mean value, and XB1 had much better bundles than PS4. So the XB1S value was better as long as it offered the games that people wanted, and being 1.4TF versus the Pro's 4.2TF didn't change their mind.

We had years of discussion about the importance of power in consoles on B3D, and no matter how much people claim it's the most important factor, they still purchased a Dreamcast, or a PS3, or an XB1, or whatever console they already wanted.

Existing gamers do not switch ecosystem easily, and with the new model of mid-gen refresh, online services, and FC/BC, it's going to be extremely difficult for MS to convince PS gamers to move to the Xbox ecosystem. The "console war" no longer resets every gen with a clean slate.I don't think we will see a big shift in market share unless there's a very dramatic event (like Kutaragi or Mattrick coming back to design next gen).
 
I can't believe price doesn't factor in at all.

If you look at which console sold most, it's invariably the cheapest. I doubt the masses are completing customer satisfaction surveys and giving their views on product purchases.
 
If you look at which console sold most, it's invariably the cheapest.
Not sure you can make that call. I think it's more a case of it never being the most expensive, and price competitive. You'll get cheaper consoles as they try to compete on price, but once one has the upper hand in terms of consumer mindshare, simply being cheaper isn't enough.

@Rangers : Are you going to consider this a fluke failure of your theories, or are you going to update your views based on the arguments some of us have been presenting over the months as to why Pro won't be the top selling device?
 
"The bundled game", meaning BF1 for XB1 which was the cheapest way this year to buy a box with both BF1 and COD, particularly online in US.
 
"The bundled game", meaning BF1 for XB1 which was the cheapest way this year to buy a box with both BF1 and COD, particularly online in US.
Quite possibly yes, ideally it is that straight forward (without metrics you can't make that claim), if so the guys at MS are doing their research for sure. Instead of paying to secure an exclusive, they only need to secure marketing rights for game bundling to have an edge over their competition.
 
The Pro was $150 more plus taxes on that amount during BF?

So why would people buy that over a $250 package with a couple of games?

The PS4 dropped to $212.50 plus tax at a number of stores both online and in store on Monday.

EDIT: That was the Uncharted 4 bundle.
 
Yeah, there's no valid comparison between $212 vs $400 when consumers are shopping.
 
PlayStation (cheapest), PlayStation 2 (cheapest), Wii then 360 then PS3 (cheapest to most expensive), PlayStation 4.

Simples.
googles US prices at launch

Nintendo 64 US$199.99
[URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_Jaguar']Atari Jaguar US$249.99
[/URL]
PlayStation US$299.99

next gen
Dreamcast US$199.99
GameCube US$199.99
[URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_2']PlayStation 2 US$299.99[/URL]
[URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_2'][/URL]
thats TrumpTruther
talk
 
Yeah it's not simples at all. In addition to Zed's figures Wii U was the cheapest for a long period. Playstation 2 wasn't really cheaper than Xbox either. In US their prices were aligned all through the life of Xbox. In Europe Xbox launched more expensive, but dropped within weeks. PS3 was for a quite some time way more expensive in Europe than the 360, but outsold it clearly and even worldwide ended in a tie. PS4 hasn't really been cheaper ever since Kinect was dropped and as of now Kinect was included only for a brief period of time.

I'm not saying price don't matter as dropping Kinect was the key for Xbox One to become viable, but it certainly hasn't been the only factor.
 
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Yes, as well as similar launch prices there are price drops with consoles undercutting the competition but not selling more than the competition as a result.
 

You need to align the prices for when consoles competed not when they they launched but I was including credible platforms, i.e. the ones that didn't launch with the stench of death and failure already upon them. GC (which I owned and adored), Dreamcast and Jaguar were all objective failures both critically and commercially. PlayStation (1994) was primarily competing with Saturn (1994) because the N64 didn't launch until 1996. PS2 (2000) steamrollered Dreamcast (1998) which launched over a year earlier but was a failure out of the gate, leaving PS2 effectively no competition until Microsoft throw a bunch of people under the bus with short lived support for the original Xbox (2002).

Let's be clear, just launching a cheap console isn't a winning gambit. By that measure Ouya should be rolling in cash. But the highest selling console can be attributed to the most cheapest price in direct competition for the past four generations - by relative global RRP, you can't account for exchange rates. Timing is also a factor but timing is no longer something that is in console manufacturer's control - they gave they up when they abandoned custom hardware. :yep2:
 
PlayStation was 199.99 before Nintendo 64 hit the market.
Yup. And that's why launch prices are are misleading. You need to look at the prices when consoles were competing in the market. Some of the console generates include consoles launched 2 or 3 calendar years apart whereby launch prices have dropped significantly.
 
...but I was including credible platforms, i.e. the ones that didn't launch with the stench of death and failure already upon them.
I think that's a pretty ridiculous caveat. The ones with 'the stench of death about them' were priced cheaper to try and encourage customers. That gambit failed because price isn't the only factor. And it's pretty typical for the less valued product to be priced cheaper than the more popular product to try and attract the more price conscious customer. If you exclude cheaper products because people don't want them (which is why they're priced cheaper), then yes, the cheapest (wanted) product is the one that sells best, which is of course a self-satisfying argument.

As a pure argument, 'does the cheapest product always sell best?', definitely not. As a pure argument, 'does the most expensive product always sell the worst?', yes; certainly when the markup over the most popular alternative is significant..
 
I think that's a pretty ridiculous caveat.

Of course it's not. If you were shopping for a car you wouldn't buy the cheap one your neighbour has been building himself in his spare time which runs on compound made from used teabags, would you? At least I assume you wouldn't.

The ones with 'the stench of death about them' were priced cheaper to try and encourage customers. That gambit failed because price isn't the only factor.

Price isn't the only factor but the highest selling console for the last four generations has been the console that has spent most of the its life in the market at the lowest price to the credible competition. That's a fact. Price isn't the only factor but this same discussion gets repeated on this forum every few months and the truth is the factors of product choice will vary person to person, group to group and country to country. While you can define the various factors you can't meaningful measure and weigh them. I.e. you'll never know for sure why 40m people bought a PlayStation 4 instead of an Xbox One. But it's surely not a coincidence that the less expensive platform has consistently done well and why the expensive options, going back to the Atari 7600 and fourth generation consoles lie NeoGeo didn't do well. Console history is littered with things like that. How about 3DO? GameBoy vs. PSP/Vita.

And it's pretty typical for the less valued product to be priced cheaper than the more popular product to try and attract the more price conscious customer. If you exclude cheaper products because people don't want them (which is why they're priced cheaper), then yes, the cheapest (wanted) product is the one that sells best, which is of course a self-satisfying argument.

For stand alone products that is true, for products whose value is dependant on an accompanying ecosystem that is patently not the case. Again, Ouya.

As a pure argument, 'does the cheapest product always sell best?', definitely not.

As a pure argument, has the cheapest credible console sold the most for four generations? The answer is yes. You can debate credible if you like. There were other factors too, Sony marketed PlayStation to 20 somethings like me (when I was 20 something!) with WipeOut when everybody else was still targeting kids or their parents. Timing, as I mentioned in my previous post, is critical. Would PlayStation and PS2 had done well well if launched a year later? Probably not because some competition was more entrenched and other competitor's products closer to launch. Would PS4 have sold as well if Microsoft saying one dumb inconsistent confusing thing after another? Probably not. Timing and the ability to achieve quick inertia are important.

But price? When did the least price conscious product ever dominate any market? Once. iPod. The Outlier.
 
Price isn't the only factor but the highest selling console for the last four generations has been the console that has spent most of the its life in the market at the lowest price to the credible competition. That's a fact. Price isn't the only factor but this same discussion gets .

I don't really see how that's a fact when the PS4 was cheaper than Xbox One for only something like 6 months and I'd say Xbox has had in general the more aggressive deals since then. PS2 was the same price as Xbox for most of their lives. GameCube was as cheap as anything and it did sell over 20M units. That's not credible for you, but the more expensive successor to it was, because it did good?

I think Shifty is right about the fact that it's been more about not pricing yourself out of the competition instead of being the cheapest. Most of the competing platforms have been at the same price for majority of their time in the market. It's the other stuff that made the difference in the end.
 
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