All purpose Sales and Sales Rumors and Anecdotes [2016 Edition]

[Shifty Geezer]

Consoles, you'll be paying with PS4 Pro currently 33% more for 2-3X performance. I dont know that the video card analogy is valid, but if it was it was, how do you think that battle would go?

The same as every consumer product ever - the cheaper option sells to those who are more price conscious. What you're describing is an economic fallacy, although one people can fall for in certain cases, where better value isn't better value if it's unused/unvalued. Let's say I have the choice between 250 GBs HDD at 5 cents per GB, or 1 TB HDD at 3 cents per GB. Obviously the 1 TB is far better value, but if I'm only ever going to use 100 GBs of storage, that added value would be pointless added expense. Going large at the take away might be better value in terms of food you'd get, but if you'll be full on a medium serving then spending more for more food you don't want means spending more than you need to.

3X the performance for a 33% increase in performance is better 'objective value', but value is intrinsically subjective. Will slightly better graphics be worth another $100? To many people, definitely not. Hence spending more for something they won't appreciate would actually be the stupid move. Regardless what other options there are, PS4 is 'good enough' at the right price.

 

[JPT]

I think we need to break it down into even smaller/new segments of consumers/gamers.

Usually you had the people that got the a console at the beginning of console life and then there are people jumping on with cost down deals and versions like the slim. It has been that you got the "same" console for less money.

This generation you got an extra option, "same" product for better price ie the slim and an upgraded product for the original entry price.
Just to make it easy, you probably can eliminate the "bargain" hunters from the PS4P target group. But how many of those early adopters will go Pro instead of Slim? Many of them have actually gone Slim in the past, I certainly did and reading on this forum, it seems I was not the only one.
Have $ony found a way to get more cash from the early adopters, in the "middle" of the generation?

I speculate that

1. Early adopters that used to buy slim when it released, are the ones that are more likely to go Pro. I assume those are also more likely to have a 4K TV or are planning to get a 4K TV, so why go slim and then Pro when you get that new shiny 4K TV.
2. People that have bought into the PS VR and want more oomph might upgrade to Pro

 

[Rangers]

The same as every consumer product ever - the cheaper option sells to those who are more price conscious.

Although think the analogy is flawed, I think if you had a 399 card that was 2 or 3X as powerful as a 299 card, the 399 card would sell vastly better. People would know, the 299 card was nearly a waste of money by comparison.

What you get in video cards is more like a 399 card that is 30% faster than a 299 card.

BTW Microsoft stated they won October NPD. 4 months in a row. Aquamarine is now saying she will no longer release any data before the 21st of each month. She's also saying she will send some big spreadsheet of data (including historical) to people who DM her if she gets NPD clearance (So I think she must follow you as well as vice versa). But she characterized it as "private", so I dont know if anybody would be technically allowed to share that anyway. All that to say, I guess we wait till the 21st for any Aqua numbers.

 

[iroboto]

XB1S takes October for NPD. Assuming their BF deals take off they have a chance at November, but the combined numbers (4+4Pro) makes it really difficult.

https://mobile.twitter.com/aarongreenberg/status/796837069507084288

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Although think the analogy is flawed, I think if you had a 399 card that was 2 or 3X as powerful as a 299 card, the 399 card would sell vastly better. People would know, the 299 card was nearly a waste of money by comparison.

Which is where you fundamentally misunderstand general consumer practice. You're saving up for a new GPU, with a 299 budget. Out comes the 399 card at much better value. It's outside your price range so you don't buy it, simples. Above a certain price threshold all the features in the world don't matter. A more extreme case, for £250,000 you can have a studio apartment in a block, or for £350,000 you can have a 3 bedroom semi detached home with garden. Why would anyone go for the studio apartment when for 40% more money you get 3x more house?

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Which is where you fundamentally misunderstand general consumer practice. You're saving up for a new GPU, with a 299 budget. Out comes the 399 card at much better value. It's outside your price range so you don't buy it, simples. Above a certain price threshold all the features in the world don't matter.

Thresholds don't get crossed much with such a similar price points in many product categories. For example the Xbox 360 premium vastly outsold the $100 cheaper core model, because it was better value and more desirable SKU.

The GPU example would be just as if not more lopsided towards the $399 model. In reality that is a quite bad example with those totally unrealistic numbers. You aren't currently getting even close to 2-3x (this range alone is too large, whether 2x or 3x is a huge difference.) performance when going from $299 to $399. Generally you might be getting 25-35% more performance with that price increase and this is what people are used to in this market and still buying those more expensive products. Now flip this over and offer 200% more performance and you'd be crazy not to expect a huge shift in PC consumer buying behaviour.

Now a $249 Base PS4 with games vs $399 PS4 Pro is entirely a different scenario, especially if you don't have a 4K TV. The effective price difference is very large in that case. Still I'm certain the Pro will ship very good numbers. There is demand and good market position for it. It complements the lineup very well.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Which is where you fundamentally misunderstand general consumer practice. You're saving up for a new GPU, with a 299 budget. Out comes the 399 card at much better value. It's outside your price range so you don't buy it, simples. Above a certain price threshold all the features in the world don't matter. A more extreme case, for £250,000 you can have a studio apartment in a block, or for £350,000 you can have a 3 bedroom semi detached home with garden. Why would anyone go for the studio apartment when for 40% more money you get 3x more house?

In the same way many people with a budget for a 129 USD video card won't get a 149 USD video card even if it's quite significantly more performant. Some might, but then someone will come along and say, why buy the 149 USD video card when you can get the much better performing 169 USD video card. Hmmm, ok. But then someone comes along and says, why buy the 169 USD video card when you can get this 229 USD video card that is sooo much better. In the end, many will stick with the 129 USD option, while some will decide to bump up their budget to some extent.

Consumers can go in all directions. Some have hard budget limits and some have some wiggle room.

New consumers considering PlayStation are going to be facing a whole bevy of questions.

PS4 + some games for 249-299?

PS4P for 399?

PSVR add on bundle for 499 (remember new consumers so they won't have the camera, etc.), so basically 750-800 USD versus 900 USD?

I think a lot of new consumers will opt for one of the 249-299 PS4 bundles.

Existing PS4 owners who would in the past have gotten a Slim will opt for a PS4-P instead. PS4-P will likely also draw in PS4 owners who in the past would not have gotten a Slim.

PSVR will predominantly be bought by existing PS4 owners. It's a relatively huge investment for anyone that's new to the platform, and the games on offer are largely not complete gaming experiences with a few exceptions. IE - it's like buying into a new platform generation, except with a launch game lineup that is significantly worse than a new console generation launch, other than the VR wow factor.

Regards,
SB

 

[Globalisateur]

Last week november sales + revenues + average selling price of PS4, Pro and XB1 in UK:

PS4 Pro - 40K
PS4 - 25K
Total: 65K
Total revenue for PS4 family: ~£20m

X1 - 45K
Revenue for XB1: ~£9m

Average selling price:
XB1: £200
PS4: £307.69

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/ps4-console-sales-up-204-following-pro-launch/0175282

To counter Sony and their Pro Microsoft are currently doing massive price cuts of their OG XB1 with for instance XB1 + 4 games at £179 at Target.

 

[iroboto]

Last week november sales + revenues + average selling price of PS4, Pro and XB1 in UK:

PS4 Pro - 40K
PS4 - 25K
Total: 65K
Total revenue for PS4 family: ~£20m

X1 - 45K
Revenue for XB1: ~£9m

Average selling price:
XB1: £200
PS4: £307.69

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/ps4-console-sales-up-204-following-pro-launch/0175282

To counter Sony and their Pro Microsoft are currently doing massive price cuts of their OG XB1 with for instance XB1 + 4 games at £179 at Target.

I think this is a very expected response for sure. To cut the legs off Sony's launch they must cut prices hard temporarily. Doubtful these cuts continue after the month of November.

Though, the average price is a little wonky on PS4s side, there are no discounts on 4Pro, whereas there could be on PS4.

 

[Rangers]

Last week november sales + revenues + average selling price of PS4, Pro and XB1 in UK:

PS4 Pro - 40K
PS4 - 25K
Total: 65K
Total revenue for PS4 family: ~£20m

X1 - 45K
Revenue for XB1: ~£9m

Average selling price:
XB1: £200
PS4: £307.69

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/ps4-console-sales-up-204-following-pro-launch/0175282

To counter Sony and their Pro Microsoft are currently doing massive price cuts of their OG XB1 with for instance XB1 + 4 games at £179 at Target.

Not as much of a shellacking as I would have expected for the 1st week.

Overall the sales response to PS4 Pro (judging also by Amazon in USA, lack of sellouts etc) has been a little more muted than I expected. However time will tell.

More vanilla PS4 vs Pro sold than I expected as well. But again as news filters out of Pro enhancements, things could pick up.

Edit: Also, where did you get those numbers in your post? The article you linked doesn't contain them. Did the article contain them and they were edited later? A bit of leak then?

 

[London Geezer]

Well, the Pro is in stock on Amazon UK. So it's a completely different situation to when a new platform launches. Usually it takes a little while to be able to just buy one without having to wait, soon after launch.

 

[Rangers]

Famicom Mini (I guess NES classic in Japan) sold 262,961 last week. Apparently that was quite a bit higher than expected (50k-100k)

Gaf made a chart of some other console launches to compare by.


1998.11.27 [Sega Dreamcast] (¥29.800) - 101.490 (3 days)
2000.03.04 [Sony PlayStation 2] (¥39.800) - 630.552 (2 days)
2001.09.14 [Nintendo GameCube] (¥25.000) - 133.719 (3 days)
2002.02.22 [Microsoft XBox] (¥34.800) - 123.929 (3 days)
2005.12.10 [Microsoft XBox 360] (¥29.000 / ¥39.795) - 62.135 (2 days)
2006.11.11 [Sony PlayStation 3] (¥49.980 / ¥59.980) - 88.443 (2 days)
2006.12.02 [Nintendo Wii] (¥25.000) - 371.936 (2 days)
2012.12.08 [Nintendo Wii U] (¥26.250 / ¥31.500) - 308.570 (2 days)
2014.02.22 [Sony PlayStation 4] (¥41.979 / ¥46.179) - 322,083 (2 days)
2016.11.10 [Famicom Mini] (¥5.980) - 262,961 (4 days)

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Gaf made a chart of some other console launches to compare by.

It's not a console. Tamagochi sold 3 million in its first three months. "Tickle Me Elmo" sold out.

 

[goonergaz]

Not as much of a shellacking as I would have expected for the 1st week.

Not quite sure when this date is 'to' but it's not been out a week yet, even today is day 5 so this is 4 days worth of sales

 

[Phil]

Overall the sales response to PS4 Pro (judging also by Amazon in USA, lack of sellouts etc) has been a little more muted than I expected. However time will tell.

The PS4 Pro will sell and be a success, not because it packs more performance and people actually want it, but because it's at the right price and they will get it (over a standard PS4) because of the potential to harmonize better with their future 4k TV.

I haven't got one and I'm sticking to my original PS4 for now. If I was in the market for a new one, getting the Pro (again, at THAT price) would be a no-brainer. Since I have one, I'll just give it another year till I replace my PS4 with a Pro eventually.

I think historically, many people, especially early adopters, ended up buying a 2nd of the same console somewhere down the line. Sony have just secured this a bit better by making a better version available. I will upgrade. The only question is when...

 

[Rangers]

It's not a console. Tamagochi sold 3 million in its first three months. "Tickle Me Elmo" sold out.

Well, Media Create/Famitsu is tracking it's sales as a console I guess...

Not sure it's really "not a console" either. It plays games, it connects to the TV, it has a controller....main difference from a traditional console is I guess you can never add additional games to it and there will be no software sales for it. Perhaps Nintendo is regretting that decision currently?

Now of course, $60 versus $200-$500 consoles is a bit "unfair" in sales terms...

There should also be some initial PS4 Pro sales out of Japan in the next couple days I'm looking forward too. Although, the machine seem unlikely to particularly appeal in Japan where power seems low on their priorities.

Edit: Look like I found Global's source for his Uk numbers http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...nd-xbox-one-machines-sold-in-the-uk-last-week

As GAF said, looks like Gamesindustry is bucking MCV's percentage nonsense and providing real numbers. This is the 2nd Gamesindustry article recently with real UK numbers.

Also Zhuge provided more accurate UK numbers on twitter

Last week
PS4: +65k
- Pro: 42k
- PS4: +23k

Xbox One: 45k

Two weeks ago
PS4: +21k
Xbox One: 24k

Total November
PS4: +86k
- PS4: +44k
- Pro: 42k

Xbox One: 69k

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Not sure it's really "not a console" either. It plays games, it connects to the TV, it has a controller....main difference from a traditional console is I guess you can never add additional games to it and there will be no software sales for it.

Precisely. It's a 'dead end' product that'll never change from the moment you buy it, whereas a console is a platform on which you can run software bought over the life of the platform. There are many cheap self-contained video game toys, none of which are tracked as consoles.

 

[goonergaz]

Precisely. It's a 'dead end' product that'll never change from the moment you buy it, whereas a console is a platform on which you can run software bought over the life of the platform. There are many cheap self-contained video game toys, none of which are tracked as consoles.

Hopefully someone will make it so you can use it like an emulator

 

[function]

Hopefully someone will make it so you can use it like an emulator

Pretty sure it is just an emulator - a cheapo arm thingy would cost a lot less than coming together three official parts.

It's just got a fixed library, that's all.

 

[goonergaz]

Pretty sure it is just an emulator - a cheapo arm thingy would cost a lot less than coming together three official parts.

It's just got a fixed library, that's all.

That's what I meant, hopefully someone will 'fix' that - I'd rather have a cute box to play on