[360, PS3] Mass Effect 2 *(Spoiler Warning)

[DuckThor Evil]

I imported a level 49 character. I never really looked closely, but it looked like I started at level 2 with some extra skill points. I've heard importing a level 60 character starts you at level 5 with some number of skill points.

Thanks for the info!

Man I have hard time dealing with the fact, that some you are already playing the game, and I'm not!
Amazon UK still hasn't shipped my copy, so I won't be getting it until late next week... How the hell am I supposed to deal with that?!

:smile:

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Didn't realize so many people saw the inventory and stats as such a key part of the game. I'm hearing the complaint in a number of places. I thought they were a pretty small part of the last one. Guess it's something people expect from RPGs, and maybe RPG fans like to micro-manage. To me, stats have nothing to do with RPGs, but I understand in the PC space that's kind of what it means.

Stats are integral to RPGs. As a long time RPG fan I can only think of 2 Live Action RPGs that didn't require stats, instead relying purely on the acting ability of the players. And even in the Live Action arena, I can think of far more Live Action systems that are far more popular that require varying degree's of stat tracking.

Remove the stats, and you remove much of the ability to to have a consistent "other" personality. Instead being able to morph your persona in any way you wish (Kind of like the Albion system).

Stats, basically allow a consistent reference point of what your persona can do. And depending how on realistic you want to make your fantasy world, things like having some form of reasonable inventory system (or plausible explanation of why there isn't one) is key to immersing yourself in the experience of pretending to be a character in another world.

That said, I would have liked if Inventory Management was overhauled rather than just gotten rid of entirely.

Regards,
SB

 

[Tap In]

Stats are integral to RPGs. As a long time RPG fan I can only think of 2 Live Action RPGs that didn't require stats, instead relying purely on the acting ability of the players.

there are still player stats (for abilities) and upgrades that you choose and control just like the last game as well as deciding how good or bad you want to play... you also choose how and when to upgrade equipment and what to carry (and what weapons your team carries) it's simply the extended (redundant) loot that they did away with and replaced with a different way of upgrading.

FTR, I've decided I'm not a loot game whore. :smile:

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I agree on the inventory and ammo, but I can see how some people look forward to managing those things manually. There are people that love crafting in MMOs. It's something I've never understood. I think a lot of RPG players are into stats and micro-management. Mass Effect 2 is definitely not a stat or micro-management game. It is designed to keep the story or the action moving. There is a huge contrast to Dragon Age, which I'm also slowly playing. In Dragon Age, every time I find a new item I have to spend ten minutes sorting my inventory, trying to figure out whether it's worth picking up relative to what I'd have to drop and destroy.

I do enjoy loot games, and if they'd gone the route of picking up weapons and armour, I would have been fine with that. In this case you can find tech which you have to bring back to your ship and develop into upgrades by spending resources. I'm wondering if there was a consideration in terms of the game difficulty. With this system they can place exactly when you'll be able to get certain upgrades, and maybe that helps them scale the difficulty. In most RPGs the difficulty can be erratic depending on your equipment. You might get some great armour early and tear through the easy part of the game, but then struggle later if you are not able to get the right set. Or vice versa, you might have poor armour to start, but get amazing armour later making the end of game incredibly easy. With Mass Effect 2s approach, they know you won't be getting upgrade X until you visit a certain place. Maybe that helps. I don't know. It could have been something they weren't thinking about, and they simply wanted to remove micro-management to improve the flow of the game.

In other words make it more like a FPS shooter than a proper RPG.

I understand the reasoning, I just wish they wouldn't try to candy coat it in order to try win over RPG fans.

Regards,
SB

 

[scooby_dooby]

They Really haven't scaled back the stats at all, it just seems that way at first blush.

Each character still has the potential to have 7 skills, that's pretty much the same as the original game if memory serves.

They replaced the 10 or so increments they for each skill, with just 4. In ME1 you had minor, and major skill upgrades, all the cool stuff would happen on the major points. In ME2, it's basically like they dropped all the minor increments, and just left you with the 4 main ones.

IMO the skill personalization has actually improved, as each class how more unique skills than they had in the original game.

 

[nightshade]

What about global cooldown for abilities.?
Yes i kno the cooldown timer is shorter in me2 but still it takes away ur ability to use 2 abilities one after another. And regenerating health makes me completely forget about HP

 

[Scott_Arm]

Stats are integral to RPGs. As a long time RPG fan I can only think of 2 Live Action RPGs that didn't require stats, instead relying purely on the acting ability of the players. And even in the Live Action arena, I can think of far more Live Action systems that are far more popular that require varying degree's of stat tracking.

Remove the stats, and you remove much of the ability to to have a consistent "other" personality. Instead being able to morph your persona in any way you wish (Kind of like the Albion system).

Stats, basically allow a consistent reference point of what your persona can do. And depending how on realistic you want to make your fantasy world, things like having some form of reasonable inventory system (or plausible explanation of why there isn't one) is key to immersing yourself in the experience of pretending to be a character in another world.

That said, I would have liked if Inventory Management was overhauled rather than just gotten rid of entirely.

Regards,
SB

Inventory has always been more of an immersion breaker to me. Most of these games you have a bag of tricks with five thousand items stuffed inside. Your guy doesn't even have to pack the stuff on a horse, or even carry a bag. It's just magically stored inside his pants or shirt. I'm pretty sure the plausible reason why there isn't one is because none of these people are carrying bags. They've got the guns strapped to their backs, and that's it. Hell, I bought a bottle of wine and some ship parts. Where were those? In my guys ass? It certainly wasn't underneath his skin hugging armour, or in his hands.

Mass Effect 2 still has stats. You have the Paragon and Renegade stats, which pretty much act as the most important "role playing" stats in the game. Beyond that you have the skill trees have all the same powers, as far as I could tell, but they removed weapon training, armour training, medicine and electronics. In place of those they have all the bonuses tied into the tech upgrades.

I have little concern for how they've simplified the stat system, but I can understand others that do have concern. They've definitely tried to make this a hybrid of rpg and shooter, and it was apparent that they had that in mind with the first one. I think calling it dumbed down is not really fair. It's just not what you're looking for, I guess. Personally, I think the game is incredibly similar to the first one, but refined, so I have a hard time believing that anyone that enjoyed the first one wouldn't like the second. It isn't for everybody though. Some of the conversations take a while, and you can play quite a long time without combat. That is pretty much a barrier to entry for a lot of people. If the intention was really to cater to the shooter crowd, I think they would have cut out all the NPC interaction and left the stats, turning it into something more like Borderlands (fps Diablo).

 

[MfA]

They replaced the 10 or so increments they for each skill, with just 4. In ME1 you had minor, and major skill upgrades, all the cool stuff would happen on the major points. In ME2, it's basically like they dropped all the minor increments, and just left you with the 4 main ones.

In ME1 they were cool ... in ME2 most of them are greyed out 99% of the time because the enemy is shielded.

 

[scooby_dooby]

In ME1 they were cool ... in ME2 most of them are greyed out 99% of the time because the enemy is shielded.

Not really, maybe 1 in 10 enemies have shields, only the stronger ones.

And it's more complex than that anyways:

Tech Powers - Greyed out when enemy has armor. Effective against shields.
Biotics - Greyed out when enemy has shields. Effective against armor.

They've got the whole rock scissors paper thing going, and it even extends to the weapons, so it's pretty cool. Use heavy pistols for shields, smg or shotgun for armor etc. I'll often switch between 2-3 weapons in a single fire fight with a stronger enemy. Likewise, I'll use my squad's abilities in a specific order, so use Overload to drop shields, use a Biotic to drop the armor, and then just lay in to him with the SMG to finish it off.

Greyed out doesn't mean you can't use it either, it just means it won't be very effective. This was the same way in ME1, they just didn't expose it to you through the UI, you had o just 'know' when your powers would be effective.

 

[RobertR1]

I'm very impressed with this game so far. The combat is a ton better and more importantly, the game runs smoothly. I'm really digging the RPG changes they made. While some one the RPG folk who have micro management ocd might not like it, I appreacite that I don't have to waste a ton of time with loot/inventory and so on. Gives me more time to talk to every single thing I come across and ask all of my questions.

4.5 hours in and I just got my first 2 team members. One of them being the free DLC one that you have to do nothing for.

 

[nightshade]

Yes that indeed makes the game a lot more well paced but we are talking about an RPG here people, micro management broken or not should still be a part.I like this game a lot; but I think no matter how much far off from an RPG it is, it'll still be a free pass for Bioware in winning the RPG GOTY 2010.

 

[obonicus]

Probably not.

 

[nightshade]

The only other big name in RPG which is releasing this year is FF13 & so far it doesn't seems to be pleasing the critics too much. [meh ! when was the last time a JRPG was not linear ? & seems to me no one has a problem with ME being linear,so why complain about it in a JRPG ? Game Journalism these days is at its worst]

 

[Scott_Arm]

Yes that indeed makes the game a lot more well paced but we are talking about an RPG here people, micro management broken or not should still be a part.I like this game a lot; but I think no matter how much far off from an RPG it is, it'll still be a free pass for Bioware in winning the RPG GOTY 2010.

I still don't know why an rpg HAS to have a heavy stat system and inventory. Is that all that makes an rpg an rpg? I've been playing rpgs since the early 80s, and some of my favourites from back then, which are still some of my favourites now, were pretty light on those things.

 

[nightshade]

I still don't know why an rpg HAS to have a heavy stat system and inventory. Is that all that makes an rpg an rpg? I've been playing rpgs since the early 80s, and some of my favourites from back then, which are still some of my favourites now, were pretty light on those things.

Well you didn't had many design choices back then did you ?
What iyo defines Role playing ?

 

[scooby_dooby]

The only other big name in RPG which is releasing this year is FF13 & so far it doesn't seems to be pleasing the critics too much. [meh ! when was the last time a JRPG was not linear ? & seems to me no one has a problem with ME being linear,so why complain about it in a JRPG ? Game Journalism these days is at its worst]

ME is the farthest thing in the world from being linear! Right now my journal is overflowing with missions, I have like 20 things going on, and can literally do them in any order I want.

There's major points where it comes back together, but for the most part the game is almost totally n0n-linear.

 

[liolio]

There are a lot of bashing/complain (nitpicking?) for something that looks great, I'll buy as soon as price drop a little. More action, they got rid of the awfull inventory system, better perfs, more character to the various classes, still a great setting.
I can't wait to lay my hand on that one.
EDIT
Do you (the ones who own the game) think that Bioware should have included a mp mode? (human vs human).

 

[nightshade]

Well I am not nitpicking [uh maybe I am ] but I love the game regardless, I just hate that my arms aren't as long as before eventhough the ones before weren't really as strong as the ones now.

ME is the farthest thing in the world from being linear! Right now my journal is overflowing with missions, I have like 20 things going on, and can literally do them in any order I want.There's major points where it comes back together, but for the most part the game is almost totally n0n-linear.

I am referring to Linearity as in the area allotted you to roam around, I am pretty sure even FF13 would allowed you to have multiple side quests that you can undertake & fulfill in any order you like. I know you have lots of planets to go on in ME2 but in the end most of them just lead to another corridor shooting the ones which are really open & paced out are places like Omega & Illium [LOVE IT !..so beautiful & artistic]...yet neither are as huge as the Citadel from ME1.

 

[ShadowRunner]

While the overall structure is quite open in the fact you can tackle the missions available to you at any one time in any order the actual missions and exploration areas themselves are very linear. Not a problem though i like it that way.
One thing i dont like is how clearly segmented the missions are from the exploration wish they had gone for something more seamless and not break the immersion so much.
I dont think peoples complaints are nitpicking as such i think people who loved the first game and find this one to be a bit of a dissapointment have valid reasons, not because it its bad but because it has taken the series in a direction they didnt want.

 

[nightshade]

I dont think peoples complaints are nitpicking as such i think people who loved the first game and find this one to be a bit of a dissapointment have valid reasons, not because it its bad but because it has taken the series in a direction they didnt want.

Thanks, that's what I wanted to say, looks like I was out of explanations
I am a HUGE Mass Effect fan btw so bad changes or good changes I love the game regardless.