Middle Generation Console Upgrade Discussion [Scorpio, 4Pro]

[Nisaaru]

Scorpio could be 10 times more powerful than the Pro and I would never consider it because all my friends have PS4 and I'm already far to invested into that platform. Likewise, there are many Xbox fans that clearly prefer the Xbox One experience despite "weaker hardware" for the same reason which is just as legitimate. But buying the upgraded version of a console for the better specs? I don't get it.

For that reason a smart move by MS would be getting a deal done with the major studios for cross platform digital licenses so *previously* bought digital licenses for a PS4 could be moved to Scorpio, maybe part of XBL or some extra fee if truly necessary.
It would be a win/win situation with minimized losses on the few people who would buy the same licenses again on a switch.

 

[Phil]

I don't think that would work. As a PS4 owner, I'm pretty much vested into the whole user-experience too. It's not unlike people who are stuck (and loyal to) Android smartphones and those that are to Apple. I just transitioned to an iPhone in December and boy it was a task and not something I wanted. On consoles, it would take an even bigger leap. Call it old habits, but it starts with the controller and ends with the type of games (many exclusive and synonymous with the PlayStation brand). The biggest factor however is the fact that most my friends I play with, play on PlayStation. If I were too change to Xbox, I would lose those and would have to find new ones.

I'm 33 which I think puts me right smack in the middle and average of the userbase (or maybe top end already?). Anyway, I come home after work and with some of my real friends, I do in fact socialize by playing games together online. So even if Microsoft had a better product, it would still be quite a leap for me to even consider a change. I know most my fellow gaming friends think a like (all vested in Sony's platform), so that won't happen. The point to change wouldn't be mid-generation, but at start of a new one. Back in the day, there was a huge difference between consoles of the same generation. The PS offered quite a different experience (and graphically too) from the N64 that followed. Likewise, the Dreamcast came a little too early and us PSone gamers all knew that the PS2 was right around the corner.

Now it's simpler, as both consoles offer for the most part the same games that look and play alike too. But it's also more difficult to chose one over the other. Why chose an Xbox over a PS if I am coming from a PS? Why change the other way around if both offer more or less the same? For one to be chosen over the other (or for me to jump ship) would necessitate that one offers a vastly different and better experience than the other. And that kind of a difference has not really been the case since a while now, except for perhaps the Wii who offered a quite different experience altogether (and as a result attracted a new crowd).

 

[Nisaaru]

It wouldn't work with everybody obviously but surely ease a switch for some.

 

[ProspectorPete]

I all honesty, there were games which performed better than expected on Xbox One; Assasins Creed had a FPS advantage, Destiny was 1:1 the same with the more powerful PS4. I was led to believe that this was due to the lightning fast ESRAM and Display Planes as well special audio hardware.. A lot of games had better AF, or better frame pacing, like the recent FF XV.
Realistically, as long as the dev has a good relation with the platform holder, there should not be too big a difference.
Unless Xbox Scorpio does have a massively superior CPU in which 60fps should be more prevalent on those versions (aside from the PS equivalent of Destiny, which will be 1:1 the same)

 

[eastmen]

To be honest the way you describe it, pc can actually be more expensive, even in the long term.
The pc you describe is almost double the cost of the Scorpio.
So if in 3-5 years you wanted the next xbox then you still would've paid less than the initial cost of the pc (not including any upgrades you may or may not have done).
So when you get next Xbox you can either trade it in, sell it, keep it, give it away whatever. Either way you have two machines for the price of the one pc.

Yes but the pc isn't just a game machine . THe pc is a tool to do a lot of other stuff on it. That's also an expensive system. You can get another chip that's only $200 with a $60 mobo and only 8 gigs of ram for $50 and so on . It just depends on what you want to do. You can build a pc machine for like $600 that will be as fast as scorpio and most likely you will be able to just upgrade the video card when xbox next comes out depending on when it does. Like I said a i5 2500 still plays games just fine and that's from 2011 . A 2013

To be honest the way you describe it, pc can actually be more expensive, even in the long term.
The pc you describe is almost double the cost of the Scorpio.
So if in 3-5 years you wanted the next xbox then you still would've paid less than the initial cost of the pc (not including any upgrades you may or may not have done).
So when you get next Xbox you can either trade it in, sell it, keep it, give it away whatever. Either way you have two machines for the price of the one pc.

You can go cheaper if you want and still get a good experience there are builds out there that are $600 or so total and are close to the 6tflop mark of scorpio .

Its really just want you want to spend and of course if you want you can keep other parts longer. There are some parts you really only need to buy once , case , power supply , keyboard , mouse etc . So if you wanted to keep up with a 3-4 console cycle on the pc its really easy. The best part is you can choose when you want too. Have a radeon r9 2x0 + or GeForce 9x0 series and feel its still giving good performance when scorpio hits ... just wait a year or until games don't run as you like and upgrade Get something much better than a scorpio for less at that point

 

[MrFox]

It wouldn't work with everybody obviously but surely ease a switch for some.

Depends if the percentage of PS4 gamers who only care about third parties is enough to trouble publishers with this, they would have to agree and negotiate new publishing terms (they'd lose the duplicate sales, and then call it piracy or something). Sony would also have to agree to disable the title remotely, and that's a legal can of worms.

I think the biggest untapped demographic for MS might be first time console buyers, and those who never upgraded their 360. A large segment of PS4 gamers have favorite games that are exclusives, many are looking forward to TLOU2, Horizon, Death Stranding, Nioh, Detroit, etc... it's difficult to convince a PS fan to switch to xbox if that means he won't be able to play these games, nor anticipated sequels to his favorites.

Maybe a good sales pitch to convince this group is getting both consoles. It's already a higher-end market targeting gamers with money. Why not a Pro? Why not a Scorpio? Why not both? Why not Zoidberg?

 

[Jay]

Yes but the pc isn't just a game machine . THe pc is a tool to do a lot of other stuff on it. That's also an expensive system. You can get another chip that's only $200 with a $60 mobo and only 8 gigs of ram for $50 and so on . It just depends on what you want to do. You can build a pc machine for like $600 that will be as fast as scorpio and most likely you will be able to just upgrade the video card when xbox next comes out depending on when it does. Like I said a i5 2500 still plays games just fine and that's from 2011 . A 2013


You can go cheaper if you want and still get a good experience there are builds out there that are $600 or so total and are close to the 6tflop mark of scorpio .

Its really just want you want to spend and of course if you want you can keep other parts longer. There are some parts you really only need to buy once , case , power supply , keyboard , mouse etc . So if you wanted to keep up with a 3-4 console cycle on the pc its really easy. The best part is you can choose when you want too. Have a radeon r9 2x0 + or GeForce 9x0 series and feel its still giving good performance when scorpio hits ... just wait a year or until games don't run as you like and upgrade Get something much better than a scorpio for less at that point

with pc you can go from 300-3000 so sure you can go cheaper.
I was just saying your example worked out better to possibly get Scorpio, especially given the context that he felt Scorpio could possibly do everything he wanted. Which in turn means pc may not be offering any/much benefit in that regards.
Xbox getting closer to pc with uwp, pc getting closer to Xbox so a lot of blurring in regards to functionality.
if Xbox may be able to do what you want with uwp apps etc, and you play games, it's suddenly a viable alternative to pc.

 

[eastmen]

with pc you can go from 300-3000 so sure you can go cheaper.
I was just saying your example worked out better to possibly get Scorpio, especially given the context that he felt Scorpio could possibly do everything he wanted. Which in turn means pc may not be offering any/much benefit in that regards.
Xbox getting closer to pc with uwp, pc getting closer to Xbox so a lot of blurring in regards to functionality.
if Xbox may be able to do what you want with uwp apps etc, and you play games, it's suddenly a viable alternative to pc.

yea but its a snap shot in time. You may get the sweet spot at launch for $400- $500 but what about in 2018. A pc build at that price may be vastly more powerful. That's what happened with the last two consoles and its whats happened with the ps4 pro

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Call it old habits, but it starts with the controller and ends with the type of games (many exclusive and synonymous with the PlayStation brand).

It's made easier when your existing brand choice goes and randomly changes things. I hate the change to PS4's virtual keyboard input. R2 used to be shift on PS3 but now it's enter, meaning I constantly keep pressing enter. Similarly they changed the video controls. Changes for no good reason that no-one asked for that makes their machine harder to use for they existing loyal customer base. And the way the interface works, how I can never find anything I'm looking for where it was mostly obvious in XMB. Grumble grumble.

I wonder if the console companies ever consider this? In fact companies in general? Like MS changing how Windows worked so that no-one could use it - they just shot themselves in the foot. Keeping platform continuity is important as even when rivals can offer better value, 'the devil you know' has considerable appeal and can lock people in to you brand.

 

[dobwal]

I don't think that would work. As a PS4 owner, I'm pretty much vested into the whole user-experience too. It's not unlike people who are stuck (and loyal to) Android smartphones and those that are to Apple. I just transitioned to an iPhone in December and boy it was a task and not something I wanted. On consoles, it would take an even bigger leap. Call it old habits, but it starts with the controller and ends with the type of games (many exclusive and synonymous with the PlayStation brand). The biggest factor however is the fact that most my friends I play with, play on PlayStation. If I were too change to Xbox, I would lose those and would have to find new ones.

Buying an Xbox doesn't mean depriving oneself of all things PS4. Most who already own a PS4 will simply maintain both consoles side by side (or simply use another room).

I owned both the 360 and PS3 with the 360 serving as my main console for the first half of the gen and the PS3 serving as my main console for the second half. Plus you don't have to worry about your PS4 friends buying a PS4 version of Halo or Forza and depriving u of social interaction on Scorpio. If worse comes to worse there are xboxers on here to game with.

LOL.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

We had 3D themes with PS360 but they haven't continued. I guess devs didn't like the effort needed, especially when a short lived background barely seen and never appreciated. Highly animated with lots of movement in and out (context sensitive menus with Pretties) is my expectation. Would be nice if it was awesome and became something applicable to Windows as a tablet.

Yup they are working on revamping the Windows UI as well with Project Neon. Looking at making it more beautiful as well as more friendly for VR and AR. But while Project Neon is seen more as an evolution and refresh of the UI, the motion language initiative for Project Scorpio is thought by some to be a far more extensive revamp of the Xbox UI. So little is known outside of the name that I'm sure plenty of people's imaginations will run wild with what they have planned.

Regards,
SB

 

[Phil]

Buying an Xbox doesn't mean depriving oneself of all things PS4. Most who already own a PS4 will simply maintain both consoles side by side (or simply use another room).

I owned both the 360 and PS3 with the 360 serving as my main console for the first half of the gen and the PS3 serving as my main console for the second half. Plus you don't have to worry about your PS4 friends buying a PS4 version of Halo or Forza and depriving u of social interaction on Scorpio. If worse comes to worse there are xboxers on here to game with.

LOL.

I've never been a fan of that. Maybe during my late teens, early 20ties when my life used to be confined to my bedroom, I actually had the interest to maintain multiple consoles at the same time. There was a while when I used to play my PC and SNES side by side. Then the PlayStation came and sort of replaced both because it offered the same and more (sans the cool flightsims I used to play). Now, I have a sleek home and my "entertainment" has moved into the livingroom, to the big screen and at the same time, luckily, my hobbies have also expanded a little beyond gaming. So now I have a kick ass hifi (seperate components for amp and processor) all taking up room, I have my Kodi system and in this sleek and clean set-up, I have some room with limited space for one gaming console. I'm doubtful the original PS3 would actually fit in there (it would, but due to heat soak would probably explode), thank god, the new consoles do. Speaking of which, my HDMI input ports are limited too (and yes, I know the Xbox One has/used to [?] have a HDMI input, but I'm not fond of increasing latency).

Even if I would entertain the idea of owning two consoles, I can assure you the Xbox wouldn't be it. Not as a PlayStation owner. Why? Both consoles target the same audience, offer the same (type of) games, the majority of games multi platform games. Why have two consoles, 2 controllers for what is essentially the same thing? If I would entertain the idea of getting a second console, I'd probably go for whatever Nintendo is offering because i'd gain access to something entirely different. So that's that then. Does this matter? Yes I think it does. Because I think my behavior is quite average. I'd say the bulk of a console base does not own multiple gaming consoles. The hardcore gamers perhaps do (as I used to be one), but they too are getting older. Eventually, most of us hook up and get married. And that means compromises.

And therein IMO lies one of the problems. Back when the 360 launched, it had an awesome headstart, an awesome product at the right price. I can well imagine that many bought a 360 because their eyes didn't want to cope with the razor sharp pixels cutting their eyes while playing PS2 games anymore. Then when the PS3 came, they wanted that too (maybe even for Bluray) and ended up with both. Now though with X1 and PS4 launching at the same time, many were probably faced with deciding what to get and just stuck with one.

These Pro editions of both consoles are interesting. I don't quite get the desire to get one, but maybe that is because I haven't upgraded to a 4k display - which I think is what these Pro editions are all about. Being there when most people get their new 4k screen and try to make some extra profits by selling them a 4k capable console. I don't think that they will offer any graphical superiority (other than the image quality and the resolution), just the small benefits here and there. The best of what I expect is that the base consoles will play everything at low-settings, the Pro version at medium settings. I will upgrade eventually, most likely when Sony decides to bring out a new model of their Pro version (perhaps a slim).

What irks me about these Pro versions though, is that I can well imagine that at some point, developers will start to focus only on this hardware. This might be aided by the fact that eventually the Pro will start to get more attractive and I'm sure there will be numbers that show how many people actually use which console for gaming. When there will be enough Pro versions around, I expect games to be developed for these Pro consoles while the base model will simply be able to play it, even if it means at the cost of a worse game experience as a result of choppy framerate etc.

 

[ProspectorPete]

Last week I was able to return the Xbox One S because the BD player kept crashing, lucky me
As compensation (for having it sent in 2 times without repair) a manager offered me 20% off for my next gaming purchase in the future. This morning I learned that meant everything on the receipt, so this happened....



The price difference with the regular one was small; 1TB Slim (with Watch Dogs) 349; PS4 pro 388. Gamers in the market for a 1TB Playstation would choose a Pro probably, the gaming manager told me the Pro was often sold out until recently, that a lot of people specifically asked for it.
If the price difference is not that big, I believe informed consumers will choose the Pro. Sony specifically did not yet mass market the Pro (due to low supply apparently), maybe that will change once they ramp up production?

In any case, it was the vagueness of the Scorpio PR and and also Xbox PR itself that made me ditch the idea of getting one. They removed VR from the Scorpio product page and VR is something I am really exited about so... I still wish MS the best and I hope that a lot of people will enjoy Scorpio eventually, even if it has Jaguar, No VR options, and so on.

 

[Jay]

So now I have a kick ass hifi (seperate components for amp and processor) all taking up room, I have my Kodi system and in this sleek and clean set-up, I have some room with limited space for one gaming console.

Will be interesting when x1 has uwp kodi released.
Streaming, uhd blu-ray (inc hd pass through atmos etc), HDMI pass through, kodi, and games.
They have to market it as a games machine, but it's turning into a capable multimedia device also, they need to find a good way to get that across.

 

[Jay]

In any case, it was the vagueness of the Scorpio PR and and also Xbox PR itself that made me ditch the idea of getting one. They removed VR from the Scorpio product page and VR is something I am really exited about so... I still wish MS the best and I hope that a lot of people will enjoy Scorpio eventually, even if it has Jaguar, No VR options, and so on.

Strangely enough these are almost the reasons I didn't pick up 4pro.
I was going to pick it up over Christmas as to me the value was amazing.
But, with hearing very little from them, the performance with un patched games, lack luster vr library nothing really showing what it's capable of (Imo) I decided to wait to see what Scorpio has to offer, only have to wait until e3 at the latest I assumed.
Boost mode has made it an attractive proposition again, re7 vr is a very good vr title, although doubt my heart could take it, so not for me.
Old titles was important as I don't play games often any more so I don't need to buy the most recent games, I'm happy to buy older titles on the cheap. So un patched older titles are important to me.

Strange you mention jaguar being a minus for Scorpio as that's what's in 4pro. It will be an overall more powerful system, although that's not my own personal requirements.
With all your 'concerns' I have seen from you since you started posting, I think you made the right decision for yourself.

 

[ProspectorPete]

Strange you mention jaguar being a minus for Scorpio as that's what's in 4pro. It will be an overall more powerful system, although that's not my own personal requirements.
With all your 'concerns' I have seen from you since you started posting, I think you made the right decision for yourself.

I believe PS4 Pro is a bit bottlenecked by the CPU; I watch a lot of digital foundry and looking at Rise of the Tomb Raider unlocked, I believe a more powerful CPU could have made it a stable 60fps. It was an early pro title, but still.
FFXV the same; the base PS4 does almost stable 30fps, while in battle, the uncapped frame rate in lite mode on the Pro is barely higher.
I am not saying it's bad, I am only saying it's a shame that it's not powerful enough to easily hit 60 on 30fps regular PS4 games.

If Scorpio only has a better GPU and higher bandwidth, I would not expect many 30 to 60 conversions their either for Scorpio optimised modes.

 

[Phil]

Will be interesting when x1 has uwp kodi released.
Streaming, uhd blu-ray (inc hd pass through atmos etc), HDMI pass through, kodi, and games.
They have to market it as a games machine, but it's turning into a capable multimedia device also, they need to find a good way to get that across.

It's funny (and I'm sorry if this is slightly OT) - but I just wanted to say that I've been there. When I had the PS3, it was my sole media hub. That first device that allowed me to consume digitized content on the big screen in the livingroom. The experience started out chunky at first - installing a DLNA server, but also having to reconvert my matroska files to mp4 (and reconverting dts to ac3) because the PS3 refused to read it. Those were times. My friend at the time kept insisting I buy a small little pc and install xbmc/kodi, but nope. Wasn't interested in buying ANOTHER device, if one was perfectly (the definition of perfect can be subjective at times) adequate. When Asus brought out the little h264 capable eeebox (with supplied IR remote in the bundle) is when I finally decided I had enough of the PS3 media experience. I switched to Xbmc/Kodi and never looked back.

So when Sony launched the PS4 and effectively removed all its media capability (still a big WTF decision IMO), I thankfully couldn't care less. Right now, I'm not even aware if PS4 is capable of accessing a DLNA server, I never checked. There is no point. The market has moved on, the train has left, no one cares. For me anyway. To know that the Xbox will support Kodi in the future is nice for those that want it I guess. My box isn't h265 capable yet, so I'm effectively missing newer 4k content, but eventually I will upgrade my little NUC system.

This is IMO one of the areas where Sony simply has it's corporate head stuck deep inside its own ass. They were once one of the only companies that had their hands in many areas all at once. The unique position of being inside the livingroom (TVs, Hifis, PlayStation) but also being a creator of content (Sony Computer Entertainment, Sony Music, Sony Pictures etc). And which company was one of the first that made it all happen? Apple, starting with the iPods, distributing it through iTunes and eventually developed this powerful overlapping platform synergy across iPhones, iPods, OSX and iTunes. And AppleTV. Meanwhile, Sony was stuck throwing rocks in the way of what the market wanted (by not supporting mp3 for a long time, Matroska or other means of digitized content and throwing all their eggs towards BluRay).

 

[KirkSi]

I believe PS4 Pro is a bit bottlenecked by the CPU; I watch a lot of digital foundry and looking at Rise of the Tomb Raider unlocked, I believe a more powerful CPU could have made it a stable 60fps. It was an early pro title, but still.
FFXV the same; the base PS4 does almost stable 30fps, while in battle, the uncapped frame rate in lite mode on the Pro is barely higher.
I am not saying it's bad, I am only saying it's a shame that it's not powerful enough to easily hit 60 on 30fps regular PS4 games.

If Scorpio only has a better GPU and higher bandwidth, I would not expect many 30 to 60 conversions their either for Scorpio optimised modes.

Obviously they've said very little about the Scorpio CPU so it's an area for a lot of speculation at the moment. The most relevant (but very vague) thing they've said is with regards to their overall hardware philosophy, in that it's been designed around balance. At the moment this is the only statement that leads me to believe that they must have gone with a more powerful CPU (not Jaguar) to balance out the considerable jump in GPU power.

 

[Sigfried1977]

Buying an Xbox doesn't mean depriving oneself of all things PS4. Most who already own a PS4 will simply maintain both consoles side by side (or simply use another room).

I owned both the 360 and PS3 with the 360 serving as my main console for the first half of the gen and the PS3 serving as my main console for the second half. Plus you don't have to worry about your PS4 friends buying a PS4 version of Halo or Forza and depriving u of social interaction on Scorpio. If worse comes to worse there are xboxers on here to game with.

LOL.

I think Phil pretty much nailed it here. I believe the notion that your average gamer will simply buy multiple machines which by and large play the exact same games is complete fiction. I used to have multiple systems as well, but back in the PS2 days, I had all the time in the world, not to metion each system sported vastly different libraries. Besides offering a big-ass visual boost, there were plenty of other reasons for a PS2 owner to buy an Xbox. There are very few reasons for a PS4 owner to buy an Xbox One now, and I believe the same will hold true for a PS4 Pro vs Scorpio scenario. The average Joe already cares very little about the PS4 Pro improvements. And unless he owns a big-ass 4K screen, why the hell should he? Seriously, what's a machine with 2 additional teraflops gonna do for him? Sorry, but anything that has to pretty much be pointed out in side-to-side comparison stills isn't gonna sway masses of people.

 

[BRiT]

The exact same point applies to Xbox owners, absolutely no reason to buy a PS4 or 4Pro now.